Hello,
I joined a few weeks ago , but I've been loving olives all my life. I
started saving oil cans after I visited a local Greek food store(Zeta in
Klumbus,Ahia or Columbus, Ohio to the rest of the world) where they
displayed their empties on a top shelf.. It is truly amazing how many
different brands of olive oil there are. So far, I've consumed and
collected over 100 different galllon tins. The better oils don't seem to
packaged in tins very often these days. Oh well, maybe I need to stop
saving the containers.
Has anyone on the list read "The First of Trees" by Robert Standish?

Mike Cardi

Hello, List!
I just subscribed to your list today, and look forward to sharing the joys
and wonders of olive oil! I consume olives and olive oil on a daily basis
(life would be incomplete without them), and believe that they enhance one's
health dramatically. I look forward to learning and sharing interesting
stories and information with all of you!
Regards,
Anna
Hoboken, NJ

I really don't know where to start so I'll just dive in. I live in Sonoma
County, California, which is well known for its grapes and wines. My
husband and I own 42.5 acres of prime grape growing land. The only thing we
grow right now are apples, but we have been considering growing grapes. Then
one day as I was driving by the vineyards I noticed that some of the older
vineyards started putting in olive trees around the outside of the grapes.
So I asked my husband what he knew about olives. He said that they are hard
to grow, take many years to produce and are very expense. So now I am
setting out to find out about olives. This notion of growing olives has
just captured me. So any information is very much welcomed.

Sincerely,
Jami Curlee

Hi Jami,

If you want a great primer on olives, I heartily recommed Mort Rosenblum's
"Olives: The Life and Lore of a Noble Fruit" (1996, North Point Press). This
book is a great introduction to the most generous and spiritual of crops (at
least in my opinion). Granted, Mort's orchard is in Provence, but he takes you
on a world tour of olive growing, olive recipes, oil production, and
olea-mythology. Along the way, you'll meet some unforgettable characters and
learn a lot about olives; you'll even be able to dispell some of your husband's
concerns about olives as a crop.

In addition, you can find a nice list of olive, olive oil, and olive-related
books and publications at:

BOOKS - The Olive Oil Source

Furthermore, the University of California, Davis, has a lot of information on
olives and olive growing. I think their address is on the aforementioned
website. Finally, you might want to search the SFGate website (www.sfgate.com;
that's the combined online effort of the San Francisco Chronicle and Examiner)
for articles on olives and olive growing in the Wine Country.

By the way, I'm not an olive grower or otherwise connected to the industry. I
am, however, a full-blown olive nut. My grandmother used to cure olives grown on
my family's ranch just over the hill from you in St. Helena, so olives are a
venerable crop in the wine country (my family arrived in the Napa Valley a few
years before the Gold Rush). Sadly, we sold our ranch (which was bordered by
Pope Street and the Silverado Trail) in the late 1970's and I have since moved
to Colorado, so freshly home-cured olives are a lamented treat from my past. You
might ask some grape growers in the region what they know about olives,
particularly in your area. Olives and olive oil are making a huge comeback
there, with producers such as R.B. Cohn producing oils that stand up well in
international competition. You will probably find a plethora of information
right there in your own back yard.

Good luck with you search... and if you start growing olives, let me know. I'll
gladly buy 15-20 pounds form you each year just so I can start curing them
again.

All the best,
Ed Spear

Dear all and particularly jamal

Regarding growing olives and vineyards.

In Western Australia as the rest of Australia there is great interest in
olive growing. The whole southern part of Australia ie one half of the
content, giver or take has the climate for olive growing. Everybody
talks about soils, water and varieties but the most important factor is
temperature ( and I am sure that I will get a lot of comments or Flak).
If it is too cold the trees suffer. Low temperatures are required to
give adequate chilling albeit that Kalamata and Koroneiki as examples
only need a few hundred hours whereas Sevillano requires about 1000
hours. If the themperature is excessively high again the olive trees
become stressed, lose their flowers and have problems with pollination.
After this well drained intermediate soils with an slightly acid to
neutral pH are advantageous in reducing waterlogging stress and allowing
for better bioavailibility on nutrients than from alkaline soils. I have
walked the hills of Crete (Crete=creta = limestone= calcareous soils)
and have seen very productive trees. Of course soil pH and drainage can
be amended at a price! Getting to the aspect of water the olive tre
needs a minimum of about 300ml/year even though olive trees growing in
North Africa seem to do with less. These are often widely spaced trees
and well rooted because of their age. Trees growing under more modern
farming systems ie 250-300trees/ha may be a different story without
irrigation. It is also well recognised that table olives varieties
require more water than oil varieties. It has been traditional to dry
out oil olives before processing. Who wants to cart more water to the
mill and then have to dispose of it.

Getting back to the main point of the question. In Australia there are
three types of olive operations emerging.

1. Large Scale olive plantings - 500 to 1000 ha 250-300 trees/ha
mainly for olive oil production - to supply bulk markets, supermarkets
and possibly have some premium blends
2. Olives with other horticulural or farming activities - up to 5000
trees mainly for oil but also table olives - varietal oils, upper end of
the market products
3. Lifestyle - 500 to 1000 trees - this is for professional who work
100hours a week and want to got their farm to relax on the week ends -
good relaxation picking 25-50 tonnes of olives a year.

There are inumerous vineyards in Australia that have planted olives with
grapes. This is an excellent idea but not new. This complimentary
cropping has been carried out for over 4000 years around the
Mediterranean. There are several advantages.

¥ Time - pick the right varieties and olives appear in the first few
years.
¥ Propagation - if you cannot afford to buy trees-propagate them
yourself its easy - it just takes time. The old folk stuck broomstick
thick cuttings into the ground! If you have no cuttings volunteer to
prune someone elses trees.
¥ Water - from my experience in Western Australia - young trees need
10-20litres/week to 14 days depending on climate. Older trees need about
10 times that. Remember mature olive trees grow well without irrigation
( although crops are lower). When I visited Calabria recently I saw old
unirrigated trees that were yielding 800 kg of olives! As part of our
annual International Olive School we picked 220kg of olives from a tree
at the Benedictine Mission at New Norcia.
¥ Attention - if you love olives thats as good as all the fancy things
that you will hear
¥ Olives are not as finiky as grapes in growing or marketing
¥ The farming operations are complementary - the equipment needed except
for the harvesting aspects. Also tou pick grapes in summer and olives in
winter. Pruning of olives is during or after harvest.
¥ Olive oil is a well recognised quality product worldwide with
excellent prospects for local, regional, national and international
markets.
¥ Stand alone olive mills start from as little as US$10000 eg Olivia,
Oliomio ( I have no shares in these companies, but I know the equipment
works). Otherwise join up with a coop or take the olives to a major
processing mill.
¥ Greek-style green table olives are easy to make. a Participant of our
Table Olive Workshop growing olives organically processed one and a half
tonnes of olives. No caustic soda! little pollution and the olives dis
all the work. His product was so successful that all of it was purchased
by a wholesaler who jAzzed up the olives with chilli, herbs, galic etc
¥ The fresh olives (Green) are very popular - people want to make their
own olives. Over here in Perth last season in the supermarket they
fetched $3/kg.

Now I will ask the question in 5 years if you do not plant the olives
look at all the fun you will be missing out on.

If you do plant olives - make sure you have a well thought out brand
name that will identify your product and then happy cellar door tastings
and sales of olives and olive oil.

Ps do not forget the crusty bread!

Professor Stan Kailis
Department of Plant Sciences
The University of Western Australia
Perth WA
emails - at Uni skailis@agric.uwa.edu.au
at home kailis@ca.com.au

Hi

I am new to the list and would like to introduce myself. My partner, Roger, and
myself make Castile soap from 100% olive oil. After years of suffering from
skin irritations and allergies I started making soap, and after making soap from
olive oil and not the cheaper oils found it was the only way to go. We live on
the far south coast of NSW Australia and run our business and home on solar
power.

Vicki Younger
Redgum
Brogo NSW Australia
www.redgum.au.com
vicki@redgum.au.com
PO Box 22 Bega NSW 2550
+61 2 6492 7202

Vicki

Welcome to the list. But tell me, is the olive oil you are using australian
olive oil? We have a firm over here in central victoria doing similar
things but (forgive my parochialism) he uses imported olive oil of dubious
standard. He pays $A3.50/litre which, as everyone knows, cannot be of
exceptional standard.

I would like the Oz industry to utilise australian products. The best
australian extra virgin olive oils can be sourced for $A15/litre at present
although this price will fall in coming years. Why not go for broke and
capture a market, admittedly at a higher price, that can afford those
especial qualities that olive oil (soaps or tapenades or...) has.

The clean/green, the unadulterated, the pure, environmentally sound etc. We
have much going for us. Up your way you should probably look at Hunter
Valley oils which can be found at http://www.hunterolives.asn
Alternatively I can provide same at www.victorianolivegroves.com

Hi Vicki and Roger,

Welcome to the discussion group on Olives.

Regards

Phil Bramley

Peter,

Vicki and Roger are neighbours - well at least 60kms away - and would
naturally fall in our (Bega Valley) domain for sourcing olive oil. However I
am interested in your views on the type of oil that should be used for
making soap. We (Tanja Olives) would be hoping to produce quality (extra
virgin) olive oil and not produce lesser rated oils.

Should you be using extra virgin oil for making soap or would a lower
quality oil be more appropriate?

Glad your views.

Regards,

Phil Bramley

Both the companies (commercial soap and bath products) and individuals
(homemade/domestic soap) making olive oil soap were using lower quality
oil in production. The commercial production used oil pressed by chemical
means from wastes purchased from oil mills. People making soap in their
homes used oil pressed at a mill nearby, but it was oil from second
pressings.

I think cost is a factor for both producers mentioned above. There does
not seem to be a great interest in "extra virgin" olive oil soap, as long
as the soap is olive oil soap it satisfies the consumers. Extra virgin is
better used as foodstuffs.

However, having said this, in the western world with our ideas of
"quality", a soap made from extra virgin oil might attract consumers over
an olive oil soap. Much like a label of "New" or "Improved" appears to
attract buyers. I don't think it is necessary to use extra virgin in
making the soap.

The household that showed me their method, which is similar to methods
described by other contacts, went something like this:

Mix olive oil and caustic soda (or lye) together, bring to a boil. Don't
breath the fumes or get the fumes in your eyes. Add some ash (usually
from the pressing wastes used as fuel - pressing wastes tend to burn
completely to ash). Mix well. After it has boiled, test it/rub some on
your skin. When ready, pour it into a wood frame set on a hard surface
(cement driveway). Some of the water will drain off as it hardens. When
firm, cut the soap into blocks.

Again, I think using extra virgin oil would be a waste, unless you want to
attract high end consumers willing to pay extra.

Peter Warnock