Hello,

I'm a new member to the list. I am a German living in Belgium (in the
medical profession), but now consider changing to agricultural life
in Italy. Therefor I would like to learn about olive farming (that
probably makes me easily the least knowledgable member of the list).
I would like to get advice on:
1) how large an olive grove (or how many olive trees) are necessary
to (basically) sustain one person, and the other way round, how large
an olive grove (or how many olive trees can one man care for without
excessive mechanical aids?
2) are there any on line resources on olive farming; or very good
printed resources that can be bought in Europe (online?).

Probably these questions are way too basic for this list, so
answering off list may be adequate.
Greetings,

Nikolaus

Dr. Nikolaus Lutz-Dettinger
Spichtenberg 7
B 9681 Nukerke
Belgium
tel: **32 - 55 - 21 99 85
email: nld@yucom.be
http://dreamwater.net/nikolaus/

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<pre>Dear NiclAus

Regarding the number of olive trees. To make a living in the olive
business you do not need any trees at all. This has been proven over and
over again. However to be a bonifide olive person then you need at least
one tree.

Now to your questions.

I think you should first work out how much money you need to meet your
new expected lifestyle. Then you can work backwards. For most olive
trees do not expect more than100kg of fruit/tree. From my limited
experience in Italy depending where the trees are 25-50kg/tree may be
more realistic.

I did visit the farm of Augusto Spagnole near Rome (Nerola). The
operation was managed as an organic orchard and he produced organic
olive oil, table olives and green olive paste. His operation was low
tech apart from a tractor and past making machine. He processed the
olives in large food plastic barrels and had the olives crushed at a
cooperative press. He had a small shop on the road and sold through word
of mouth, mail order and specific suppliers.

Hee had about 3000 older trees 10, 20 and up to 100 years old and had
lanted another 3000 new trees. This occupied about 20 Ha.

Also I was in Sicily a couple of weeks ago and I noticed fresh olives
were selling in the street markets from 3000 to 5000 Italian Lire/Kg.
The prices were similar in Apulia.

Brian Chatterton who is farming olives in Italy can add more comments.

Stan Kailis
Australia
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<pre>Dear Bob, dear Brian, dear Stan,

sorry that it took me so long to thank you for your kind advice. So much to
read and consider these days. I'm deeply impressed by high level of the
discussions on this list (I'm also on some medical subspecialist lists, and
I'd wish they were as scientific as the olive list, at times).

Dear Bob,
well, coming to Australia seems an appealing idea (interesting, that you,
having so much of the sun, still appreciate that as much as we rained out
North-West-Europeans do appreciate any ray of sun we can get). But going to
Australia of course would really blow most bridges to my past life (guess
that a starting farmer can't afford to fly to Europe regularly), and that's
probably not such a good idea, now that my mother is getting older.

Dear Stan,
thank you for your very informative description and calculations. I also
have learned an enormous amount of interesting things from you, since I'm on
the list. You describe fresh olives being sold in street markets for 3000 -
5000 Lire; does that mean the completely untreated olives (which probably
should be sold not later than 2 days after harvesting, to avoid oxidation
damage?)?

Dear Brian,
if I'd still spend money as easily as I did before, I would already have
ordered your book. However, nowadays future is uncertain and I have to be
very careful. I leave for Italy on Tuesday, to go in search of my little
farm (podere), and if I can find something at a reasonable price which
includes an olive grove of more than a few trees, I can buy the book in
Castel di Fiori itself, if you find that an acceptable idea. To your
attention and that of the other Italians or Italians-by-choice on the list,
who might wish to give some useful last minute advice, just a few questions
etc. concerning my possible choices:

1) One of the real estate agents who is supposed to try to sell me a "farm"
told me, that it's impossible to make any profit from a farm in Italy these
days, let alone carve out a living. Is that the only reality, or are there
management ways and choices, with which complete disaster can be avoided?

2) One of the projects that I'm more seriously considering is in Lustignano
(Pomarance, Pisa). Any opinion on that rather remote place? The real estate
agent (who gave me a very detailed description) told me, that there are some
olive trees on the estate, and technically it was no problem to plant more;
but if I did so, I couldn't count on any support from local government or
EC. Now I'm not so used to count on such support and therefore I find it
difficult to place this in perspective. Is what he wants to say that it's
mere lunacy to plant olive trees in such circumstances?

3) An other rather interesting project is in Cinigiano (good place?, bad
place?). The farm has no olive trees, but 9 hectare (about 20 acres) of
chestnut trees. Anybody out there who has an opinion on how a chestnut
orchard compares economically to a olive grove? The place is about 750m
above see level; does this make it less suited for olives? Is there any
altitude limit to olives in central Italy?

4) Should one always try to bargain, if one tries to by property in Italy (I
guess this is surely not one of my strongest points)?

5) Any other urgent warnings and advices?

Thanks and greetings,
cordiali saluti,

Nikolaus
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<pre>Dear All

Regarding the olives for sale in Italy. I agree that black olives must
be processed asoon as possible. However for home use this is not as
important as for commercial production.Regarding green ripe olives,
there appears to be more latitude. I have processed these even 3 weeks
after picking without any apparent problem - Verdales and Frantoio.
Sevillano are more susceptible to damage. Green olives can be kept in a
cool romm for several weeks before processing. If this facility is not
available placing green olives in 10% salt solution will keep them in
good shape for at least a year.

Stan
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