<table border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
<pre>EU CUTS SUBSIDES FOR ITALIAN OLIVE OIL
Corriere della Sera - (Italian Daily) October 2, 2000

The European Union (EU) has decided to cut Italian subsidies for the
production of olive oil by 35 per cent. Italy will exceed the production
limit for the year 1999-2000, however it will still receive L1,600bn from
the EU in funds. The cut was decided after a meeting where various Italian
representatives presented four different forecasts for yearly production.

The EU judged the figures to be unreliable and decided to set a 35 per cent
"safety margin" on subsides to Italy. Meanwhile, the European Court of
Justice has rejected the appeal presented by Italy against the European
directive on the labelling and marketing of extra virgin olive oil. Italy
affirms that the label should carry the origin of where the olives were
grown, while the EU maintains that the origin refers to the location where
the oil was processed.
__________________________________________________ _______________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.
</pre>
</td></tr></table>

<table border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
<pre>Greetings all,
> Meanwhile, the European Court of
> Justice has rejected the appeal presented by Italy against the European
> directive on the labelling and marketing of extra virgin olive oil. Italy
> affirms that the label should carry the origin of where the olives were
> grown, while the EU maintains that the origin refers to the location where
> the oil was processed.

That is a great shame. I can't see the justice in that! It seems to me that
what the Italians should do is to label all their bottles with "Made with
(100%) Italian Olives". The law presumably wouldn't stop them doing this,
as long as it is an honest statement. Then, if the bottle does not state
this, one can assume that the olives are not italian.

This would be to Italy's advantage, since, for whatever reason, their oil is
traditionally considered the best.

Adrian
</pre>
</td></tr></table>

<table border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
<pre>> the labelling and marketing of extra virgin olive oil. Italy
> affirms that the label should carry the origin of where the olives were
> grown, while the EU maintains that the origin refers to the location where
> the oil was processed.

>what the Italians should do is to label all their bottles with "Made with
>(100%) Italian Olives". The law presumably wouldn't stop them doing this,
>as long as it is an honest statement. Then, if the bottle does not state
>this, one can assume that the olives are not italian.
>
>This would be to Italy's advantage, since, for whatever reason, their oil is
>traditionally considered the best.

As an interested conterpart, I can say that the problem resides in
the fact that a lot of italian olive oil is no produced in Italy but
Spain (and perhaps other origins). I can inform all of you that the
frantoio's olive oil is produced in Malaga from our variety Nevaillo
de la Axarquia or Nevaillo Blanco. This was said by the person that
buy Spanish oil to be bottled as Italian for more than 20 years.

This is why the bottle should refer where the oil was produced and
not bottled. Usually italian oil bottles have the mark "bottled in
Italy".

Gonzalo

--
================================================== ==============
M. Gonzalo CLAROS, Ph.D. claros@uma.es
Dpt. Biologia Molecular y Bioquimica claros@cica.es
Facultad de Ciencias Fax: (34) 95 213 20 00
Universidad de Malaga
E-29071 Malaga (Spain) http://www.nitrogeno.uma.es/FMP/
</pre>
</td></tr></table>

<table border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
<pre>Meanwhile, the European Court of
> Justice has rejected the appeal presented by Italy against the European
> directive on the labelling and marketing of extra virgin olive oil. Italy
> affirms that the label should carry the origin of where the olives were
> grown, while the EU maintains that the origin refers to the location where
> the oil was processed.

^That is a great shame. I can't see the justice in that!

Speaking of justice, I see this issue from a different angle. Presumably
what EU was aiming at is the practice of Italian marketers buying bulk olive
from Spain, Tunisia, and Turkey and shipping it into their facilities,
bottling it and calling it "Italian". The analogy the Italian industry used
in their appeal was the Italian clothing industry. They (Italians) claimed
that if you bought wool from China and turned it into a beautiful designer
suit, doesn't the company get to claim, "Product of Italy"? The point being
that "master blending" of all these oils from these various countries of
origin (Spain, Tunisia and Turkey) should be reclassified as an art.

As you have read, the EU didn't buy the argument and the net result can be
seen in your local US supermarket. Check out those brands with the Italian
sounding names. Look at the back label, down at the very bottom in 7 or 8
point type lies the true source of the oil inside. Ah, consumer education
at its best.

^It seems to me that what the Italians should do is to label all their
bottles with "Made with
100%) Italian Olives". The law presumably wouldn't stop them doing this, as
long as it is an honest statement. Then, if the bottle does not state this,
one can assume that the olives are not Italian.

Here is where the sub plot is rich with irony. Italians consume more olive
oil than they produce. So to the extent that Italian consumption exceeds
"Italian production", Italian consumers are buying olive oil in an Italian
supermarket, bottled by an Italian producer with an Italian brand name and
the source of the oil is not Italy. So before any US consumer thinks they
are only ones being fooled, the Italian producers have been doing this in
their own market for years. An analogy of my own, just like Clinton
carefully chose his words in anwsering questions "truthfully", that is the
level of honesty the marketplace could expect.

*This would be to Italy's advantage, since, for whatever reason, their oil
is traditionally considered the best.

Actually there is almost no truth to that statement at least as far as the
US market goes. While it is true that the brands with Italian names are the
market share leaders, the above comments point to the fact that they are
doing it absent 100% Italian olive oil. (I suspect the exact percentage of
Italian origin oil is a closely guarded formula secret for any major brand
and there exists the potential the figure could be 0 in some cases) A
study done on the US consumer by the industry shows that a scant percentage
of consumers consider the country of origin to even be an issue in their
purchase decisions. (well under 10%). Market share in the US is a function
of distribution for the most part. And you have to hand it to the
Italians, they have great looking packages even with their small type fonts.

The fact remains that true Italian oil is in scarce supply in the US
supermarkets. Just ask Colavita, the only brand that I'm aware of that
markets itself as certifiably Italian.

I would love to hear anyone's response.













This would be to Italy's advantage, since, for whatever reason, their oil is
traditionally considered the best.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Adrian D. Shaw" <Adrian.Shaw@aber.ac.uk>
To: <OliveOil@egroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 8:51 AM
Subject: Re: [OliveOil] EU cuts subsidies for Italian olive oil


> Greetings all,
> > Meanwhile, the European Court of
> > Justice has rejected the appeal presented by Italy against the European
> > directive on the labelling and marketing of extra virgin olive oil.
Italy
> > affirms that the label should carry the origin of where the olives were
> > grown, while the EU maintains that the origin refers to the location
where
> > the oil was processed.
>
> That is a great shame. I can't see the justice in that! It seems to me
that
> what the Italians should do is to label all their bottles with "Made with
> (100%) Italian Olives". The law presumably wouldn't stop them doing this,
> as long as it is an honest statement. Then, if the bottle does not state
> this, one can assume that the olives are not italian.
>
> This would be to Italy's advantage, since, for whatever reason, their oil
is
> traditionally considered the best.
>
> Adrian
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> You have an olive or olive oil recipe you want to share with others, visit
our sister group:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/OliveOilRecipes
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This link is the key to an exciting bonus for you! Read below.
>
https://trading.etrade.com/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/applogic+lpmasterpage?SCS=ONCR759&
RID=1830155029
>
> JOIN E*TRADE AND EARN A $75 SIGN-UP BONUS FOR YOURSELF, ALONG WITH $50 FOR
OLIVEOIL!
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Five steps to help promote OliveOil:
>
> 1- Add a general link to the group on your website:
http://www.egroups.com/group/OliveOil
> 2- Mention the group and its URL in your newsletters and publications.
> 3- Invite others to visit:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/OliveOil
> 4- Add a subscription link on your website. See how here:
http://www.egroups.com/promote/OliveOil
> 5- If you would like me to send a formal invitation to people you know,
write to me at OliveOil-owner@egroups.com
>
>
</pre>
</td></tr></table>

<table border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
<pre>We can't expect any help or improvement
from the European Union itself as its decisions nearly always tend to
assimilate the lowest level, but hardly to set common standards at the
latest state-of-the-art level.


We should give the EU credit on this one. They stood up to the Italian
industry on this issue and actually made a decision that is friendly to the
consumer. Not a law with much teeth, but it is a start.



----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Quick" <mquick@monterinaldi.it>
To: <OliveOil@egroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 8:58 AM
Subject: Re: [OliveOil] EU cuts subsidies for Italian olive oil


> "Salve" to all of this group!
>
> What happens in Italy regarding the labeling of olive oil is in my eyes a
> kind of legalized fraud. Obviously the industry lobby is so strong that
> tentatives of the numerous small and quality-aware producers to improve
the
> situation is blocked wherever possible.
> A short example: the area where I am working is famous for its wines and
> was among the first in Italy to achieve official reckognition for its
> quality level (DOC and DOCG status). As most of the wineries traditionally
> also produce top-quality EVOO, even if usually in very limited quantities,
> it was logical to ask for a protected name of origin also for the olive
> oil. It needed EIGHT years to finally succeed in having the so-called DOP
> (denominazione di origine protetta)!! With the new rules, published in the
> official EU bulletin 2000/C93/02, consumers may finally be sure about what
> they are buying - a great relief for all honest EVOO producers.
> All I hope is that in the long run the number of DOP's in Italy is rising
> so much that at the end even the big industry will be forced to adopt a
> consumer-friendly way of labeling. We can't expect any help or improvement
> from the European Union itself as its decisions nearly always tend to
> assimilate the lowest level, but hardly to set common standards at the
> latest state-of-the-art level.
>
> Michael Quick
> Siena, IT
>
>
>
> At 05:09 03/10/2000 PDT, you wrote:
> >EU CUTS SUBSIDES FOR ITALIAN OLIVE OIL
> >>> >>> >>>
> <<< <<< <<<
> >The EU judged the figures to be unreliable and decided to set a 35 per
cent
> >"safety margin" on subsides to Italy. Meanwhile, the European Court of
> >Justice has rejected the appeal presented by Italy against the European
> >directive on the labelling and marketing of extra virgin olive oil. Italy
> >affirms that the label should carry the origin of where the olives were
> >grown, while the EU maintains that the origin refers to the location
where
> >the oil was processed.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> You have an olive or olive oil recipe you want to share with others, visit
our sister group:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/OliveOilRecipes
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This link is the key to an exciting bonus for you! Read below.
>
https://trading.etrade.com/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/applogic+lpmasterpage?SCS=ONCR759&
RID=1830155029
>
> JOIN E*TRADE AND EARN A $75 SIGN-UP BONUS FOR YOURSELF, ALONG WITH $50 FOR
OLIVEOIL!
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Five steps to help promote OliveOil:
>
> 1- Add a general link to the group on your website:
http://www.egroups.com/group/OliveOil
> 2- Mention the group and its URL in your newsletters and publications.
> 3- Invite others to visit:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/OliveOil
> 4- Add a subscription link on your website. See how here:
http://www.egroups.com/promote/OliveOil
> 5- If you would like me to send a formal invitation to people you know,
write to me at OliveOil-owner@egroups.com
>
>
</pre>
</td></tr></table>

<table border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
<pre>"Salve" to all of this group!

What happens in Italy regarding the labeling of olive oil is in my eyes a
kind of legalized fraud. Obviously the industry lobby is so strong that
tentatives of the numerous small and quality-aware producers to improve the
situation is blocked wherever possible.
A short example: the area where I am working is famous for its wines and
was among the first in Italy to achieve official reckognition for its
quality level (DOC and DOCG status). As most of the wineries traditionally
also produce top-quality EVOO, even if usually in very limited quantities,
it was logical to ask for a protected name of origin also for the olive
oil. It needed EIGHT years to finally succeed in having the so-called DOP
(denominazione di origine protetta)!! With the new rules, published in the
official EU bulletin 2000/C93/02, consumers may finally be sure about what
they are buying - a great relief for all honest EVOO producers.
All I hope is that in the long run the number of DOP's in Italy is rising
so much that at the end even the big industry will be forced to adopt a
consumer-friendly way of labeling. We can't expect any help or improvement
from the European Union itself as its decisions nearly always tend to
assimilate the lowest level, but hardly to set common standards at the
latest state-of-the-art level.

Michael Quick
Siena, IT



At 05:09 03/10/2000 PDT, you wrote:
>EU CUTS SUBSIDES FOR ITALIAN OLIVE OIL
>>> >>> >>>
<<< <<< <<<
>The EU judged the figures to be unreliable and decided to set a 35 per cent
>"safety margin" on subsides to Italy. Meanwhile, the European Court of
>Justice has rejected the appeal presented by Italy against the European
>directive on the labelling and marketing of extra virgin olive oil. Italy
>affirms that the label should carry the origin of where the olives were
>grown, while the EU maintains that the origin refers to the location where
>the oil was processed.
</pre>
</td></tr></table>

<table border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
<pre>Ciao!

You raise a point in your posting which has always baffled me a little:

(Michael wrote
> A short example: the area where I am working is famous for its wines and
> was among the first in Italy to achieve official reckognition for its
> quality level (DOC and DOCG status).

You have Denominazione di Origine Controlata, which is supposed to give the
consumer the confidence that what they are getting is what the label says.
Then, presumably because of the amount of fraud that STILL goes on despite
this, you have the DOCGarantita - that is, you guarantee that the DOC is a
genuine DOC!

And now, you're bringing up a new Denominazione:

>It needed EIGHT years to finally succeed in having the so-called DOP
> (denominazione di origine protetta)!!

Is this even slightly less prone to fraud than the other two? Or is there a
subtle difference between "controlled" and "protected"? The latter has
connotations I'm sure the Italians would rather live down!

Adrian
--
Adrian.Shaw@aber.ac.uk
Institute of Biological Sciences, University of Wales,
Aberystwyth, Ceredigion, Wales
http://pcjagg.dbs.aber.ac.uk/index.html
</pre>
</td></tr></table>

<table border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
<pre>Adrian,

I myself have always difficulties to explain the difference between
"controlled" and "guaranteed" to my guests and clients, because the
nomenclature is completely silly! Leaving apart any hair-splitting and
somehow philosophical distinction between the words "controlled" and
"guaranteed", the following basic concept might give a better idea of the
real application:
DOC (dating back to the 60s) sets up a lot of production requirements and
guarantees the respect of certain quality standards (and I can assure you
that there really are controls, first of the production documents but then
also of the product itself: chemical analysis, panel test).
DOCG was introduced in the 80s in order to somehow distinguish the most
prestigious growing areas (that in general also applicate stricter rules);
still today there are only 21 different docg-wines compared to some 300
doc-wines. The stupid fact was just the last letter "G" (for "guaranteed")
which is indeed a pleonasm.

Regarding Olive Oil, for the well-known situation which still allows to
make "Italian" olive oil from let's say Tunisian olives, many growers are
indeed grateful for a protection! Otherwise, people might even arrive to
call a similar product "Tuscan olive oil" or even "Chianti olive oil" ...
Thus, "protected" just intends protected (or better: protectable) from
imitations - be it Italian (!) or foreign.
By the way, DOP rules include a series of laboratory controls and a minimum
of 7 points in the panel test.

Of course, fraud is still possible - but with the "denominazione" system
it's getting much more difficult!

Last remark: My posting was not intended as a defense of the confusing
Italian law system (difficult to explore even for any average lawyer), but
just to demonstrate how arduous it can be here to get things in order and
to fight unbearable commercial practices.

Kind regards,

Michael Quick




At 16:41 04/10/2000 +0100, you wrote:
>Ciao!
>
>You raise a point in your posting which has always baffled me a little:
>
>(Michael wrote
>> A short example: the area where I am working is famous for its wines and
>> was among the first in Italy to achieve official reckognition for its
>> quality level (DOC and DOCG status).
>
>You have Denominazione di Origine Controlata, which is supposed to give the
>consumer the confidence that what they are getting is what the label says.
>Then, presumably because of the amount of fraud that STILL goes on despite
>this, you have the DOCGarantita - that is, you guarantee that the DOC is a
>genuine DOC!
>
>And now, you're bringing up a new Denominazione:
>
>>It needed EIGHT years to finally succeed in having the so-called DOP
>> (denominazione di origine protetta)!!
>
>Is this even slightly less prone to fraud than the other two? Or is there a
>subtle difference between "controlled" and "protected"? The latter has
>connotations I'm sure the Italians would rather live down!
>
>Adrian
>--
>Adrian.Shaw@aber.ac.uk
>Institute of Biological Sciences, University of Wales,
>Aberystwyth, Ceredigion, Wales
>http://pcjagg.dbs.aber.ac.uk/index.html
>
</pre>
</td></tr></table>