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<pre>We planted few olive trees in South Australia with plans to practice organic
farming. To this end we delivered cow manure to each of the trees as on the
photo.

Could somebody tell whether we can leave it piled up around the stem (see photo)
or should we spread it in order to give them "a bit of air"? If we leave it as
it is then it will serve as a mulch, perserving water which is very precious
over here. It would also discourage weeds from growing because of lack of light
as well as save us a bit of work.

Regards

David

Ps: Sorry, photo attachment was rejected as not being allowed through this
service!
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<pre>I would suggest that you spread it around in a quite wide circle - you want
to encourage the roots to spread. if you get humid weather then you
definitely don't want it piled up too high. I'm not sure but if you are
piling it in a concentrated way then you may be adding an acidity to the
soil?? Anyone got any comments
regards

John Bishop
-----Original Message-----
From: rbe [SMTP:ham@rbe.net.au]
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 1999 3:07 PM
To: OliveOil@onelist.com
Subject: [OliveOil] Organic farming

From: "rbe" <ham@rbe.net.au>

We planted few olive trees in South Australia with plans to practice
organic farming. To this end we delivered cow manure to each of the trees
as on the photo.

Could somebody tell whether we can leave it piled up around the stem (see
photo) or should we spread it in order to give them "a bit of air"? If we
leave it as it is then it will serve as a mulch, perserving water which is
very precious over here. It would also discourage weeds from growing bec
ause of lack of light as well as save us a bit of work.

Regards

David

Ps: Sorry, photo attachment was rejected as not being allowed through this
service!




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</pre>
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<pre>Natural animal manures should have no effect on soil acidity.As a mulch
its effect will only be short term if you have a high level of microbial
activity as it will disappear in a matter of weeks if this is the case.If
the manure doesnt degrade quickly this may indicate low microbial
activity/or soil ph levels on the low side.Fish /seaweed preparations can
assist with activating soil microbes
Neville Burt
-----Original Message-----
From: John Bishop <johnb@compositeretail.co.nz>
To: 'OliveOil@onelist.com' <OliveOil@onelist.com>
Date: Thursday, August 12, 1999 6:06 PM
Subject: RE: [OliveOil] Organic farming


>From: John Bishop <johnb@compositeretail.co.nz>
>
>I would suggest that you spread it around in a quite wide circle - you want
>to encourage the roots to spread. if you get humid weather then you
>definitely don't want it piled up too high. I'm not sure but if you are
>piling it in a concentrated way then you may be adding an acidity to the
>soil?? Anyone got any comments
>regards
>
>John Bishop
>-----Original Message-----
>From: rbe [SMTP:ham@rbe.net.au]
>Sent: Thursday, August 12, 1999 3:07 PM
>To: OliveOil@onelist.com
>Subject: [OliveOil] Organic farming
>
>From: "rbe" <ham@rbe.net.au>
>
>We planted few olive trees in South Australia with plans to practice
>organic farming. To this end we delivered cow manure to each of the trees
>as on the photo.
>
>Could somebody tell whether we can leave it piled up around the stem (see
>photo) or should we spread it in order to give them "a bit of air"? If we
>leave it as it is then it will serve as a mulch, perserving water which is
>very precious over here. It would also discourage weeds from growing bec
>ause of lack of light as well as save us a bit of work.
>
>Regards
>
>David
>
>Ps: Sorry, photo attachment was rejected as not being allowed through this
>service!
>
>
>
>
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>
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</pre>
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<pre>Neville Burt wrote:
> Natural animal manures should have no effect on soil acidity.As a
>mulch
>its effect will only be short term if you have a high level of microbial
>activity

I'd like to add that while I have no direct experience, I've read in
numerous articles that you should COMPOST any manure prior to application
due to the possibility of transmitting diseases. If I remember correctly,
the fear is that parasites may be contained in the manure, absorbed by
growing plants, then passed to humans who consume either the plants or the
animals that have eaten the plants. This is how parasites are passed, after
all.

Most sources recommend, in fact, that you do NOT add human or animal feces
to a compost pile. I think this is to discourage persons attempting
"backyard" mulching who might be tempted to add pet feces, for example.
Since most people might not know what they're doing, adding any type of
feces is discouraged.

Still, since most of my information was obtained in passing, I'd suggest you
do more research. I did a quick search on the internet and found the
following references:

http://www.gvrd.bc.ca/waste/bro/swcomp1.html
(this seems to be an excellent source of info. it mentions composting manure
first to prevent plant burn, but otherwise says it's okay.)

Here are some pages of links:
http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/mg/Compost.html
http://grn.com/grn/library/compost.htm

Most of the info I found has to do with household composting, but I'm sure
the basic principles would still apply.
I'm sure you can find more information on the net on your own with a little
effort.

While I'm all for your effort to practice organic farming, I'd urge you to
be careful, do your research, and consult with an expert on the subject.
I'm sure it can be done, though. Most manure sold at nurseries says,
"composted", after all.

Good luck,
Alonso
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<pre>>
>From: Peter Warnock ...
>Plants don't really "absorb" parasites...

Thanks for the clarification. I hope I didn't confuse or alarm anyone
unnecessarily; I was trying to call attention to the issue, and hoping that
someone with more expertise could address it.

Still, I'm wondering if anyone knows if composting of cow manure is only
necessary to prevent plant burn, or are there health issues involved. (I'm
assuming that all cow manure used for fertilizer is always composted. Is
this not the case?)

Also, aren't there intestinal parasites humans can be infected with by
eating undercooked beef? How is the beef infected? Is it through airborn
infection after slaughter, or are parasites introduced to the animal via the
plants they eat, as Peter has described?

This may be a little off topic, but I wonder if some of our farmers could
share their experience or knowledge and clear this up for me.
Thanks,
Alonso
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<pre>>
>From: Peter Warnock ...
>Plants don't really "absorb" parasites...

Thanks for the clarification. I hope I didn't confuse or alarm anyone
unnecessarily; I was trying to call attention to the issue, and hoping that
someone with more expertise could address it.

Still, I'm wondering if anyone knows if composting of cow manure is only
necessary to prevent plant burn, or are there health issues involved. (I'm
assuming that all cow manure used for fertilizer is always composted. Is
this not the case?)

Also, aren't there intestinal parasites humans can be infected with by
eating undercooked beef? How is the beef infected? Is it through airborn
infection after slaughter, or are parasites introduced to the animal via the
plants they eat, as Peter has described?

This may be a little off topic, but I wonder if some of our farmers could
share their experience or knowledge and clear this up for me.
Thanks,
Alonso
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<pre>On Thu, 12 Aug 1999, Alonso Flores wrote:

> I'd like to add that while I have no direct experience, I've read in
> numerous articles that you should COMPOST any manure prior to application
> due to the possibility of transmitting diseases. If I remember correctly,
> the fear is that parasites may be contained in the manure, absorbed by
> growing plants, then passed to humans who consume either the plants or the
> animals that have eaten the plants. This is how parasites are passed, after
> all.

Plants don't really "absorb" parasites. I think the idea is that people
consume plants fertilized by manure without washing them off, especially
crops grown low to or on the surface of the ground (squash, melons,
cucumber, tomato, etc.). I don't know of any human parasite that uses a
plant as an intermediate or secondary host. I know manure is commonly
used as fertilizer for many crops here in the U.S. (if it is available).
The prohibition against using human wastes (night soils) as fertilizer is
to prevent reinfection from human parasites. A large number of human
parasites (usually intestinal) are spread by fecal-oral transmission.

Peter Warnock

>
>
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</pre>
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<pre>Alfonso, the topic is very relevant and thanks for those thoughts.

In this small corner of the world there are quite a few 'alternative'
agriculturists growing organically, using bio-dynamic methods and both
approaches are very popular. Also sustainable living is a hot topic here and
it revolves around the idea of Permaculture - a system of integrated growing
of plants crops and lifestyle. I am not a total practitioner myself but
subscribe to its many practical methods. Many of my friends are and the
use of animal manures is central to good plant growth. Bio Dynamic (Demeter)
growing of plants is based around energising cow manure in cow horns. Please
don't ask me to explain!

In our olive grove we try and minimise the use of any chemical treatments.
We are lucky here so far because we have not encountered many of the olive
diseases that seem to be prevalent in the Northern Hemisphere. Olive fly,
olive knot and so on don't seem to be a problem. We do get instances of
peacock spot and olive scale is fairly common. So I guess we are fairly
lucky so far here in Australia.

In my own grove, and in the vineyard, I have to use a chemical called
'Roundup' (Glyphosphate) around the base of the olives to keep the kikuyu
grass at bay. Kikuyu is such a vigorous grower that drastic measures need to
be taken to control it. Like some animal and plant species, that are
detrimental here in Australia, they have been introduced from overseas.

We use a mixture of poultry, cow, horse and sheep manure around our trees.
We don't compost the manures but wait until they have dried out a bit (not
fresh) and place around the base of the olive trees, but keeping it away
from the trunk.

Phil
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<pre>>
>In my own grove, and in the vineyard, I have to use a chemical called
>'Roundup' (Glyphosphate) around the base of the olives to keep the kikuyu
>grass at bay. Kikuyu is such a vigorous grower that drastic measures need
to
>be taken to control it.

Phil,

Have you tried Fusilade at all? It kills grasses but doesn't affect
broadleaf plants, such as olives. If you have anything other than grass,
such as clover, it won't affect them at all, so overspray & drift shouldn't
be a problem.

Only trouble is, its as dear as poison....about 4 times the cost of Roundup.

I let the grass grow to about 20cm long, then poison it off so it acts as a
mulch.

Mike Wilson.
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<pre>How far away do you recommend to place a manure mixture from the base of the
olive tree (say one year old) for maximum benefits? Diameter of 1 meter...?
Also, why do you keep it away from the trunk and what is the clearence required
(few centimetres or so)?

David

>From: "Phil Bramley" <bramleyp@one.net.au>

>We use a mixture of poultry, cow, horse and >sheep manure around our trees.
>We don't compost the manures but wait until they >have dried out a bit (not
>fresh) and place around the base of the olive >trees, but keeping it away
>from the trunk.
</pre>
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