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<pre>Thanks Julian


Thanks for your description of the FRF measuring device. I have seen reference
to these tools in various papers, from Turkey, Spain, Italy etc, but have not
managed to track one down here.

Your suggestion to look at other industries is good, I will see what I can
find.

Regards

Damian Conlan
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<pre>Those who have read our book will know we are not fans of mechanical
harvesting with shakers but to be fair to them at the Loxton field day:

* Were "Pull" meters used to test whether the olives were ready to pick?

* Did the machines use an orbital or back and forth motion or both?

* Were the shaker heads rigid or flexibly mounted?

Cheers Brian Chatterton.




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<pre>Dear group,

A brief comment on harvesting. We (Fordwich Olive Farm) harvested over
60% of the fruit in the Hunter Valley this year (only 9 tonnes, but
still...) and my observations FOR AUSTRALIA are:-

* Vase pruning is unnecessary due to the natural tendency of the tree
to go to a vase with the weight of the fruit.
* Opening a tree up as a vase will increase the sunburn effect and in
Australia there's enough light to allow maturation of the fruit.
* Fruit picked last year was at the 60% colour stage and was
immature. I'm sure that the low oil rates spoken of here ad nauseum
were because we should look at the inside of the fruit, not the
outside.
* Flowering is good so far (Hunter Valley) and I will take the fruit
to 100% colour in 2001 to ensure full maturation.

If any of you think I'm wrong, please tell me.

Graham White


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<pre>Graham

> * Vase pruning is unnecessary due to the natural tendency of the tree
> to go to a vase with the weight of the fruit.
> * Opening a tree up as a vase will increase the sunburn effect and in
> Australia there's enough light to allow maturation of the fruit.
> * Fruit picked last year was at the 60% colour stage and was
> immature. I'm sure that the low oil rates spoken of here ad nauseum
> were because we should look at the inside of the fruit, not the
> outside.

Up until last week I was picking Verdale, also about 60/80% coloured. I was
retrieving wxw about 18% oil and damned good stuff.

This week I am picking Mission, about 50/60% coloured and shall press around
1.5 tonnes next week. Obviously I don't yet know the returns in oil yield.
Shall let you know next week. A squash test reveals a very oily olive.

A comment; not all olive trees go to a vase shape. Some, for example
Barouni and Nambatini, hold their very particular growing habits such that
it makes hand harvesting bloody difficult. Lot's of vertical spurting.
Others, Mission & Verdale for eg, I agree have a delightful outward growing
tendency that permits a gentle harvest from the top. Just rake off the top
branch and it springs backs to a more elevated position and then repeat
raking for lower fronds/branches.

On the 38 year old Mission we averaged 70kgs/tree today. I would normally
expect triple that but we have been having extraordinary seasons over the
past 3-4 years in Oz. No water in Winter and they remain unirrigated.

No flowering on any of my trees at this stage.

Regards
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<pre>Phil,

It worries me that your trees will have very little rest.
Graham W

P Caird wrote:

>
>

[eGroups] My Groups | OliveOil Main Page | Start a new
group!
>
> Graham
>
> > * Vase pruning is unnecessary due to the natural tendency of the
> tree
> > to go to a vase with the weight of the fruit.
> > * Opening a tree up as a vase will increase the sunburn effect
> and in
> > Australia there's enough light to allow maturation of the
> fruit.
> > * Fruit picked last year was at the 60% colour stage and was
> > immature. I'm sure that the low oil rates spoken of here ad
> nauseum
> > were because we should look at the inside of the fruit, not the
>
> > outside.
>
> Up until last week I was picking Verdale, also about 60/80% coloured.
> I was
> retrieving wxw about 18% oil and damned good stuff.
>
> This week I am picking Mission, about 50/60% coloured and shall press
> around
> 1.5 tonnes next week. Obviously I don't yet know the returns in oil
> yield.
> Shall let you know next week. A squash test reveals a very oily
> olive.
>
> A comment; not all olive trees go to a vase shape. Some, for example
> Barouni and Nambatini, hold their very particular growing habits such
> that
> it makes hand harvesting bloody difficult. Lot's of vertical
> spurting.
> Others, Mission & Verdale for eg, I agree have a delightful outward
> growing
> tendency that permits a gentle harvest from the top. Just rake off
> the top
> branch and it springs backs to a more elevated position and then
> repeat
> raking for lower fronds/branches.
>
> On the 38 year old Mission we averaged 70kgs/tree today. I would
> normally
> expect triple that but we have been having extraordinary seasons over
> the
> past 3-4 years in Oz. No water in Winter and they remain unirrigated.
>
> No flowering on any of my trees at this stage.
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> -
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</pre>
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<pre>In regard to Guido's request for a mechanical harvest status in California,
here is an update.

First, by way of background, we pick olives green for the "California Black
Ripe" process. So, they are more difficult to remove and cannot sustain much
fruit damage. We also grow predominantly Manzanillo which has a willowy,
cascading growth habit here (Mission and Sevillano are more upright).

We have been trying to develop a mechanized harvest system for our
Manzanillo, Mission, Sevillano, and Ascolano varieties since 1947 (53 years)
with little success under our conditions and for our cultivars until
recently. The early work (up until the mid to late '80s was totally shaker
oriented - we looked at all types of shaking machines (University and
independently developed self propelled, tractor mounted shakers from the
USA, Italy and other countries etc.), hand held vibrating rakes, shaking
patterns, tree training and pruning techniques (developing straight trunks,
selecting upright scaffolds, shortening willowy shoot growth etc.), and a
number of chemical loosening agents to reduce fruit removal force and
enhance removal (Alsol, Ethylene compounds etc.). Essentially all of the
work done here is published (extensive literature exists about mechanical
harvest research conducted over the years in olive here). Unfortunately,
shaking (any kind) has never proven to be a viable practice for our table
industry here and it is not used. The problems were these: poor fruit
removal (60% - 80%), fruit damage (physical and phytotoxicity from
looseners), tree damage (bark removal which impairs tree growth and
production considerably), leaf loss (>25% leaf loss on new shoots equates to
no crop the following season), slow rate of accomplishment with very
expensive equipment, and need to hand pick remaining fruit (harvest costs
increase considerably). So, the concept of shaking trees for our table
industry has been abandoned. Note, for an oil industry with later maturing
fruit, shaking is more reliable but still not without some of the problems
described above.

The new work (sponsored, as in the past, by our olive industry) revolves
around the concept of horizontally positioned tines on a drum(s) that moves
horizontally continually down the face of the tree (row side wall) vibrating
(raking) the fruit onto a moving catching device positioned under the tree.
The first proto type was developed by Ag-Right Enterprises and two machines
worked in the field in 1998. As expected, changes were made in the Ag-right
for 1999 and 2000. In addition, in 1999 the Korvan company (Washington)
developed a similar type of machine and used it initially that season. That
machine is (has) been refined and will be in use commercially in 2000 here
too. So, we have two companies with rotating rake machines that will be
operating in California this season. The major problem that still remains is
tree training for best fruit removal (the tree row has to be configured into
a tree wall by hedging - the machines do no remove fruit they cannot touch
such as that fruit on the edges) and minimal production loss - believe me,
this is a challenge.

Hope this helps.

Steve Sibbett
U.C. Farm Advisor
Phone - office 559.733.6486
Mobil 559.280.0666
FAX 559.734.2708

-----Original Message-----
From: Guido Costa [mailto:costa@mweb.co.za]
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 10:54 PM
To: OliveOil@egroups.com
Subject: Re: Re:[OliveOil] mechanical harvesting



Damian writes:

> In Australia, many new olive growers have been sold the line, that if they
just
> train the trees to a single trunk, and prune to an open vase or monocone
> (depending on variety and adviser), then mechanical harvesting will be
straight
> forward and efficient!! This is reflected in the harvest costings of some
> investment schemes, research reports and scoping studies, where harvesting
costs
> of $200-300 per ha or $25-$35 per tonne are common place.

Well, I tend to agree with his cautious approach!

Nor would I like to be Kiljoy, but if anyone can tell me of established
orchards of Frantoio, Leccino, etc. regularly being successfully
mechanically harvested at the quarter- to halfripe stage, I'd very much like
to hear from them. It's very easy to make all sorts of projections in glossy
handouts, but how much fruit has actually successfully been harvested at $25
per tonne?!

I've seen many hand-held or tractor-mounted Heath-Robinson arrangements in
Europe, and some of them do work acceptably for large-fruited, fully ripe
cultivars (or those with unusually low FRF's), but I've yet to see something
upon which I'll confidently pin my hopes for the type of trees we have.
Invariably a very substantial proportion of fruit has to be hand-harvested
anyway. I do better by low-flying my chopper over the orchards!

So, for the forseeable future, we're doing everything by hand, as we have
been doing on our farms since 1925 (and using it as a marketing tool!).

Most of the development work on large mechanical harvesters (orbital
shakers) has probably taken place in California. I recall that the OMC
Company over there has had these man-sized shakers around for decades (also
used for harvesting various nuts, like pecans). Maybe Steve Sibbitt can
inform us on the current status of mechanical harvesting of olives in the
States, although I don't know if they've had much experience in harvesting
small-fruited oil cultivars. Probably only the larger-fruited Mission &
Manzanilla.

For really successful full mechanical harvesting, one might eventually have
to follow the route of high-density dwarfed trees planted in the form of
narrow hedgerows, and harvested by a straddling-type machine, a-la the
grape, coffee and berry harvesters of the likes of Braud, Korovan, etc.
However, this will probably require more than just compatible dwarfing
rootstocks for existing cultivars. And it will no doubt bring along a whole
new set of problems. By nature, the olive tree prefers as much space and
sunshine as possible, so as to reduce too much vegetative and upright
growth, and to encourage yields of quality fruit. High-density plantings do
not promote this. Brian will probably be able to tell us if they've been
successful with this concept in Italy. Or maybe we'll learn something at
Bari.

O.K. So shoot me down!

Regards,

Guido


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OLIVEOIL!
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1- Add a general link to the group on your website:
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2- Mention the group and its URL in your newsletters and publications.

3- Invite others to visit:
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4- Add a subscription link on your website. See how here:
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5- If you would like me to send a formal invitation to people you know,
write to me at OliveOil-owner@egroups.com
</pre>
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<pre>Further comments on the Manzanillo story

1. From what i have heard around Australia is tha the manzanillos have
good oil levels 18% or more albeit only extractable by soxhlet

2. In WA and SA I am told that Manzanillos are yielding 18-20% oil

3. My analyisis of the situation is

a. Don't blame the olive
b. If the oil is there, but cannot be separated, this means that either
the current technology or technologists are unable to make the
separation.

4. We are told that Verdale is not a suitable oil variety, but one of
the group is getting 20%!

Which reinforces what I sai in an earlier message - we are ne chums to
this 6000 year olive business.

Stan Kailis
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<pre>Steve

Thanks very much for your illuminating summary on the current status of
mechanical harvesting in California!

Do you perhaps have the contact details of Ag-Right? I don't seem to be able
to trace their website, although I picked up a short reference to their
trials at S&J Ranch at Madera.

Regards

Guido
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<pre>Graham

> It worries me that your trees will have very little rest.

(> > No flowering on any of my trees at this stage.)

This particular grove of 38 year old Mission trees has been behaving in this
manner for many years. Last year black, still plump and unshrivelled, fruit
were on the trees in December. It would seem that they have developed their
own particular seasonal calender. These trees are located in Rochester,
Victoria.

Others groves at Swan Hill, Harcourt and Wedderburn have yet to show any
sign of bloom. Typically this occurs December except for the Rochester ones
which tend to bloom in January/February - after a little rest.

Regards
</pre>
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<pre>Another possible source of brain strain (for me) is the actual logistics
of mech harvesting. To give a hypothetical situation, a farm of 1,000
trees with 50 kgs fruit per tree would produce 50 tonnes of product. So
you would need 2 semitrailers plus a forklift plus a processing plant
nearby that could handle this quantity quickly. A further complication
would be that if you had a mixture of cv's (lets say 3) maturing at
different times you would have a minimum of 3 harvesting dates. A
havesting contractor has stated that you need to harvest each tree
twice, to get the fruit that was a little green the first time. That
could mean 6 visits, with 6 x establishment costs (float etc).You would
be at the mercy of the system.

Is this a feasible senario?

Roger Farquhar Hunter Valley

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