<table border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
<pre>It is well known that the olive oil INDUSTRY uses these methods to fraud the
consumer. Mixing non olive oil with olive oil is illegal. Mixing refined
olive oil with extra vergine and sell it as extra vergine is illegal, too.
Selling non tuscan olive oil as tuscan is a little bit less illegal because
they use very tricky methods. The big italian brand Carapelli for instance
has made a big TV promotion that shows the Tuscan countryside while the
speaker talks with an +ACI-inconfondibile accento toscano+ACI- (a non confusable
tuscan accent). At the end he says 'Carapelli, the olive oil with the non
confusable tuscan accent' and I bet that nearly everybody believes that this
oil is tuscan oil. But they never say it. On the label you find the writing
'bottled in ... (some well known place in Tuscany)'. In reality, nobody
knows if this oil is made from tuscan or even italian olives , it is said
nowhere. The new European laws protect the industry, not the small producer
and not at all the consumer. I have not yet read the law but it looks like
that it is sufficient to add a certain quantity of italian olive oil to an
imported olive oil and they can call it 'italian'. In the USA things are
even worse, as we could read in one of the last messages, not even the term
'extra vergine' is protected, so they even don't fraud if they sell
something else.
These things make me very angry because they show me that often the
governments don't protect those who need protection (small producers,
consumers) but those who have the money to buy the politicians.
Volker
</pre>
</td></tr></table>

<table border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
<pre>WELCOME to the real world. The small producer has always been sacrifished
on the alter of political expedience and money. Example: price supports to
the EU farmers
when they are selling below cost of production into the US markets. Here
again agriculture is sacrifised in the name of world peace to not
antagonize Nato members.
Maurice Penna


----------
> From: Volker Piasta <piasta@sirt.pisa.it>
> To: maillist olive oil <OliveOil@onelist.com>
> Subject: [OliveOil] The Olive Oil Scandal
> Date: Friday, August 27, 1999 6:36 AM
>
> From: "Volker Piasta" <piasta@sirt.pisa.it>
>
> It is well known that the olive oil INDUSTRY uses these methods to fraud
the
> consumer. Mixing non olive oil with olive oil is illegal. Mixing refined
> olive oil with extra vergine and sell it as extra vergine is illegal,
too.
> Selling non tuscan olive oil as tuscan is a little bit less illegal
because
> they use very tricky methods. The big italian brand Carapelli for
instance
> has made a big TV promotion that shows the Tuscan countryside while the
> speaker talks with an +ACI-inconfondibile accento toscano+ACI- (a non
confusable
> tuscan accent). At the end he says 'Carapelli, the olive oil with the non
> confusable tuscan accent' and I bet that nearly everybody believes that
this
> oil is tuscan oil. But they never say it. On the label you find the
writing
> 'bottled in ... (some well known place in Tuscany)'. In reality, nobody
> knows if this oil is made from tuscan or even italian olives , it is said
> nowhere. The new European laws protect the industry, not the small
producer
> and not at all the consumer. I have not yet read the law but it looks
like
> that it is sufficient to add a certain quantity of italian olive oil to
an
> imported olive oil and they can call it 'italian'. In the USA things are
> even worse, as we could read in one of the last messages, not even the
term
> 'extra vergine' is protected, so they even don't fraud if they sell
> something else.
> These things make me very angry because they show me that often the
> governments don't protect those who need protection (small producers,
> consumers) but those who have the money to buy the politicians.
> Volker
>
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> You can WIN $100 to Amazon.com by starting a new list at ONElist.
> Drawing is held each week through September 17. For details go to:
> <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/Teaser116 ">Click Here</a>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ***** Life is healthier with Olive Oil *****
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Others can subscribe to the OliveOil list by visiting:
> http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/OliveOil
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
</pre>
</td></tr></table>

<table border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
<pre>I'm a turkish growers with a few tress, I would like to clear some
misconceptions and this is a reply to more than one posting.
1.In the1998-1999 season turkish growers were only able to get an avarage of
0.75$/lt for their crops. 45% of the yield was left on the trees because of
the low price.Only after almost all the available oil was bought by
merchants did the price go up to 2.10$/lt in the domestic market.Turkish
growers aren't selling their products cheap because its government
sussidized, but because they have to eat.The living standart of the average
turkish farmer is far below any US producer Getting short changed is the
fate of all producers regardless of country.

2.The concept of "other" countries selling "cheap, low quality" oil and
destroying US growers is not a valid argument.The criteria for olive oil is
a set standard and it relies on the acidity level of olive oil. Extra virgin
oil means, olive oil at an acidity level of less than "1" produced by
pressing the olives.If its not pressed its not extra virgin.The acidty level
of any oliveoil can be altered chemically or by mixing oils of different
acidity.The chemical process strips out all flavor aand aroma from the
oil.This property of the process is used to obtain "light"olive oil which is
mixing chemically refined oil with a low (or none) amount of pressed
oil.The product lacks the strong taste and aroma of extra virgin and virgin
oils, but is believed to be the taste prefered by the US market(?).Olives
grown in the US aren't a different species and they are pressed in the same
kind of equipment.Some countries are not as fortunate as the US and people
have to work for a lot less.US citizens wouldn't chew gum for the daily wage
of a Turkish olive picker.4 DOLLARS per DAY. US companies go to the third
world to use this labor and then sell their products for large profits and
this seems to bother no one.But the products of the same countries suddenly
become cheap and low quality if they try to sell their own.Agricultural
production needs detailed planning and market research specially for grove
production. Think trice before planting those trees.

3.The price of hazelnut oil has been more expensive than oliveoil in Turkey
in the past 3 years. It's easier to mix oliveoil with oliveoil.

4.The law of economics is supply and demand. Wholesellers, retailers, exims
and even producers will do everything they can to increase sales.

5.Trying to setup a certificate of origin system is almost to the point of
funny. This is oil not wine.You can't keep it for years, you don't drink
bottles or even spoons of this, you put it on your salads and cook with it
(when you're cooking with it you shouldn't even be using extra virgin olive
oil. Any heat above 60 degrees celcius destroys any aroma the oil has.).I
really would like to meet someone who can tell me where an oil was produced
after its been bottled in Tuscany.The effort to create a regional favorites
system will only cause a price hike for consumers, a price fall for
producers and more profit for bottler/sellers.

Necmettin Ovacýk
Kucukkuyu/Edremit

----- Original Message -----
From: M&CP Farms <m&cpfarms@thegrid.net>
To: <OliveOil@onelist.com>
Sent: Friday, August 27, 1999 5:22 PM
Subject: Re: [OliveOil] The Olive Oil Scandal


> From: "M&CP Farms" <m&cpfarms@thegrid.net>
>
> WELCOME to the real world. The small producer has always been sacrifished
> on the alter of political expedience and money. Example: price supports
to
> the EU farmers
> when they are selling below cost of production into the US markets. Here
> again agriculture is sacrifised in the name of world peace to not
> antagonize Nato members.
> Maurice Penna
>
>
> ----------
> > From: Volker Piasta <piasta@sirt.pisa.it>
> > To: maillist olive oil <OliveOil@onelist.com>
> > Subject: [OliveOil] The Olive Oil Scandal
> > Date: Friday, August 27, 1999 6:36 AM
> >
> > From: "Volker Piasta" <piasta@sirt.pisa.it>
> >
> > It is well known that the olive oil INDUSTRY uses these methods to fraud
> the
> > consumer. Mixing non olive oil with olive oil is illegal. Mixing refined
> > olive oil with extra vergine and sell it as extra vergine is illegal,
> too.
> > Selling non tuscan olive oil as tuscan is a little bit less illegal
> because
> > they use very tricky methods. The big italian brand Carapelli for
> instance
> > has made a big TV promotion that shows the Tuscan countryside while the
> > speaker talks with an +ACI-inconfondibile accento toscano+ACI- (a non
> confusable
> > tuscan accent). At the end he says 'Carapelli, the olive oil with the
non
> > confusable tuscan accent' and I bet that nearly everybody believes that
> this
> > oil is tuscan oil. But they never say it. On the label you find the
> writing
> > 'bottled in ... (some well known place in Tuscany)'. In reality, nobody
> > knows if this oil is made from tuscan or even italian olives , it is
said
> > nowhere. The new European laws protect the industry, not the small
> producer
> > and not at all the consumer. I have not yet read the law but it looks
> like
> > that it is sufficient to add a certain quantity of italian olive oil to
> an
> > imported olive oil and they can call it 'italian'. In the USA things are
> > even worse, as we could read in one of the last messages, not even the
> term
> > 'extra vergine' is protected, so they even don't fraud if they sell
> > something else.
> > These things make me very angry because they show me that often the
> > governments don't protect those who need protection (small producers,
> > consumers) but those who have the money to buy the politicians.
> > Volker
> >
> >
> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
> >
> > You can WIN $100 to Amazon.com by starting a new list at ONElist.
> > Drawing is held each week through September 17. For details go to:
> > <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/Teaser116 ">Click Here</a>
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ***** Life is healthier with Olive Oil *****
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Others can subscribe to the OliveOil list by visiting:
> > http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/OliveOil
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> ONElist members: don't miss out on the latest news at ONElist
> Join our community member news update at
> <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/newsletter5 ">Click Here</a>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ***** Life is healthier with Olive Oil *****
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Others can subscribe to the OliveOil list by visiting:
> http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/OliveOil
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
</pre>
</td></tr></table>

<table border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
<pre>There is a saying in rural Australia "you will never make any money in
Agriculture". I think I could agree with that widely felt view. Unlike
Europe, small producers in rural industries receive no subsidy whatsoever
and most profits are made further up the supply chain.

It is difficult, as Necmettin tells us from Turkey, to break out of the
current confines of buying and selling and deceptions are hard to eradicate.
Work currently being done in Australia, and possibly elsewhere, in the DNA
testing of olive cultivars may change that. Labelling on produce in
Australia is becoming stricter and penalties for adulterated products apply.


The old supply chain of goods is currently under attack and all sorts of
'closed' or 'protected' vocations are losing their stranglehold on the old
ways of doing business. The Internet has the potential to 'democratise' the
way we do business - even olive growers. There are already quite a few small
olive growers with web sites and they offer olive oil and olive products to
the world.


Phil
</pre>
</td></tr></table>

<table border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
<pre>Like wine, one of the pleasures of olive oil is it's connection to the soil,
the people who produce it, and the place it comes from. All this "romance"
is lost when oil is made as a commodity from mountains of olives dumped by a
multitude of growers. I agree with Phil, that the internet can connect
quality producers with consumers who appreciate quality, and are willing to
pay a few more dollars to get it.

Alan Friedman
</pre>
</td></tr></table>

<table border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
<pre>AlFreedo@aol.com wrote:

> I agree with Phil, that the internet can connect
> quality producers with consumers who appreciate quality, and are willing to
> pay a few more dollars to get it.

I'd like to think you're right, and I'd like to get a local supermarket here
in Aberystwyth to stock some quality olive oil. Unfortunately I don't think I
could, and I suspect that a one-off shipment of oil to our house may incur
more delivery expense than the oil itself.

It would be interesting, however, to compare supermarket prices around the
world. The best flavoured supermarket oil I have found here is in fact the
cheapest. It is Lidl Extra Virgin (Italian, supposedly), and costs £1.99 (3
Euros; down from £2.99 only a year or so ago) per 750ml. That's 4
Euros/Litre (same in US$). I am always wary about buying fancy bottled
supermarket oils. They may be twice the price of the Lidl one, but I suspect
the quality is little different; these things are all mass produced.

I have to confess I feel somewhat guilty paying such a low price for the oil.
I feel this is ridiculously cheap, and my conscience might be eased if
someone could provide me with a top class oil at a sensible price.

Sad to say, that is as good as it gets here.

So what is it like in the rest of the world?

Adrian
--
Adrian.Shaw@aber.ac.uk
Sefydliad Y Gwyddorau Biolegol, Prifysgol Cymru,
Aberystwyth, Ceredigion, Cymru
http://pcjagg.dbs.aber.ac.uk/mynegai.html
</pre>
</td></tr></table>

<table border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
<pre>I've read with great interest the series of postings regarding offering high
quality Olive Oils directly to the consumer via the Internet. I must
admit upfront that my interest is a vested one and my viewpoint applies only
to the US and Canadian markets.

I operate an internet web site called Extra Virgin Olive Oil of the Month
Club (www.evoomc.com) based on exactly those principals being discussed,
namely that consumer would pay more for high quality brands not currently
available at their retail shelf. The concept is to offer a representative
selection of Mediterranean regions (Tuscany, Apulia, Italy--Jaen, Spain--
Isle of Crete, Greece-- Izmir, Turkey) so the consumer can try the wide
array of flavors that Extra Virgin olive oil offers.

The consumers who join do so with a great amount of passion. The
marketplace is just beginning to understand that Extra Virgin olive oil is
like wine, it differs by the soil, microclimate, type of olive, and
production process. I believe we are at the very infancy in terms of
market development and further growth will largely depend on public
relations efforts of the industry as a whole. The consumer will never
understand if we don't get the information out. That's why the industry
needs to organize its efforts in a cooperative manner. As the old saying
goes, "A rising tide lifts all boats". I look forward to any comments.


-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian D. Shaw <Adrian.Shaw@aber.ac.uk>
To: Oliveoil@onelist.com <Oliveoil@onelist.com>
Date: Wednesday, September 01, 1999 8:51 AM
Subject: Re: [OliveOil] The Olive Oil Scandal


>From: "Adrian D. Shaw" <Adrian.Shaw@aber.ac.uk>
>
>AlFreedo@aol.com wrote:
>
>> I agree with Phil, that the internet can connect
>> quality producers with consumers who appreciate quality, and are willing
to
>> pay a few more dollars to get it.
>
>I'd like to think you're right, and I'd like to get a local supermarket
here
>in Aberystwyth to stock some quality olive oil. Unfortunately I don't think
I
>could, and I suspect that a one-off shipment of oil to our house may incur
>more delivery expense than the oil itself.
>
>It would be interesting, however, to compare supermarket prices around the
>world. The best flavoured supermarket oil I have found here is in fact the
>cheapest. It is Lidl Extra Virgin (Italian, supposedly), and costs £1.99 (3
>Euros; down from £2.99 only a year or so ago) per 750ml. That's 4
>Euros/Litre (same in US$). I am always wary about buying fancy bottled
>supermarket oils. They may be twice the price of the Lidl one, but I
suspect
>the quality is little different; these things are all mass produced.
>
>I have to confess I feel somewhat guilty paying such a low price for the
oil.
>I feel this is ridiculously cheap, and my conscience might be eased if
>someone could provide me with a top class oil at a sensible price.
>
>Sad to say, that is as good as it gets here.
>
>So what is it like in the rest of the world?
>
>Adrian
>--
>Adrian.Shaw@aber.ac.uk
>Sefydliad Y Gwyddorau Biolegol, Prifysgol Cymru,
>Aberystwyth, Ceredigion, Cymru
>http://pcjagg.dbs.aber.ac.uk/mynegai.html
>
>--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
>You can WIN $100 to Amazon.com by starting a new list at ONElist.
>Drawing is held each week through September 17. For details go to:
><a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/Teaser116 ">Click Here</a>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ***** Life is healthier with Olive Oil *****
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Others can subscribe to the OliveOil list by visiting:
>http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/OliveOil
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
</pre>
</td></tr></table>

<table border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
<pre>As a small producer of olive oil in Australia I must say that I could not yet
compete with the prices quoted in the UK. For example my oil is being
wholesaled at around $A20/litre this year (in bottles of 375ml). Major cost
factors are the price of olives (around $A1000/tonne) and the variety of same
(Mission, Verdale, Barouni). The yield factor has only been about 15% this year
which equates to $A6.60/litre before processing. Add processing costs, rent,
other overheads, packaging and profit (even at $A20/litre) is nill. Still I am
here for the longer run and, as our plantings in Australia increase and price of
olives go down, we hope to be exporting to the world by 2002.

People on the eastern seaboard of Australia can get the oil delivered at a
reasonable cost of around $A5.00/kilo.

dt wrote:

> From: "dt" <dt-bt@email.msn.com>
>
> I've read with great interest the series of postings regarding offering high
> quality Olive Oils directly to the consumer via the Internet. I must
> admit upfront that my interest is a vested one and my viewpoint applies only
> to the US and Canadian markets.
>
> I operate an internet web site called Extra Virgin Olive Oil of the Month
> Club (www.evoomc.com) based on exactly those principals being discussed,
> namely that consumer would pay more for high quality brands not currently
> available at their retail shelf. The concept is to offer a representative
> selection of Mediterranean regions (Tuscany, Apulia, Italy--Jaen, Spain--
> Isle of Crete, Greece-- Izmir, Turkey) so the consumer can try the wide
> array of flavors that Extra Virgin olive oil offers.
>
> The consumers who join do so with a great amount of passion. The
> marketplace is just beginning to understand that Extra Virgin olive oil is
> like wine, it differs by the soil, microclimate, type of olive, and
> production process. I believe we are at the very infancy in terms of
> market development and further growth will largely depend on public
> relations efforts of the industry as a whole. The consumer will never
> understand if we don't get the information out. That's why the industry
> needs to organize its efforts in a cooperative manner. As the old saying
> goes, "A rising tide lifts all boats". I look forward to any comments.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Adrian D. Shaw <Adrian.Shaw@aber.ac.uk>
> To: Oliveoil@onelist.com <Oliveoil@onelist.com>
> Date: Wednesday, September 01, 1999 8:51 AM
> Subject: Re: [OliveOil] The Olive Oil Scandal
>
> >From: "Adrian D. Shaw" <Adrian.Shaw@aber.ac.uk>
> >
> >AlFreedo@aol.com wrote:
> >
> >> I agree with Phil, that the internet can connect
> >> quality producers with consumers who appreciate quality, and are willing
> to
> >> pay a few more dollars to get it.
> >
> >I'd like to think you're right, and I'd like to get a local supermarket
> here
> >in Aberystwyth to stock some quality olive oil. Unfortunately I don't think
> I
> >could, and I suspect that a one-off shipment of oil to our house may incur
> >more delivery expense than the oil itself.
> >
> >It would be interesting, however, to compare supermarket prices around the
> >world. The best flavoured supermarket oil I have found here is in fact the
> >cheapest. It is Lidl Extra Virgin (Italian, supposedly), and costs £1.99 (3
> >Euros; down from £2.99 only a year or so ago) per 750ml. That's 4
> >Euros/Litre (same in US$). I am always wary about buying fancy bottled
> >supermarket oils. They may be twice the price of the Lidl one, but I
> suspect
> >the quality is little different; these things are all mass produced.
> >
> >I have to confess I feel somewhat guilty paying such a low price for the
> oil.
> >I feel this is ridiculously cheap, and my conscience might be eased if
> >someone could provide me with a top class oil at a sensible price.
> >
> >Sad to say, that is as good as it gets here.
> >
> >So what is it like in the rest of the world?
> >
> >Adrian
> >--
> >Adrian.Shaw@aber.ac.uk
> >Sefydliad Y Gwyddorau Biolegol, Prifysgol Cymru,
> >Aberystwyth, Ceredigion, Cymru
> >http://pcjagg.dbs.aber.ac.uk/mynegai.html
> >
> >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
> >
> >You can WIN $100 to Amazon.com by starting a new list at ONElist.
> >Drawing is held each week through September 17. For details go to:
> ><a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/Teaser116 ">Click Here</a>
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ***** Life is healthier with Olive Oil *****
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >Others can subscribe to the OliveOil list by visiting:
> >http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/OliveOil
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> ONElist members: don't miss out on the latest news at ONElist
> Join our community member news update at
> <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/newsletter5 ">Click Here</a>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ***** Life is healthier with Olive Oil *****
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Others can subscribe to the OliveOil list by visiting:
> http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/OliveOil
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
</pre>
</td></tr></table>

<table border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
<pre>I suspect that the romance you are on about is strictly in the eye of the
beholder-as with wine or any table commodity.
-----Original Message-----
From: AlFreedo@aol.com <AlFreedo@aol.com>
To: OliveOil@onelist.com <OliveOil@onelist.com>
Date: 31 August 1999 0:14
Subject: Re: RE: [OliveOil] The Olive Oil Scandal


>From: AlFreedo@aol.com
>
>Like wine, one of the pleasures of olive oil is it's connection to the
soil,
>the people who produce it, and the place it comes from. All this
"romance"
>is lost when oil is made as a commodity from mountains of olives dumped by
a
>multitude of growers. I agree with Phil, that the internet can connect
>quality producers with consumers who appreciate quality, and are willing to
>pay a few more dollars to get it.
>
>Alan Friedman
>
>--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
>You can WIN $100 to Amazon.com by starting a new list at ONElist.
>Drawing is held each week through September 17. For details go to:
><a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/Teaser116 ">Click Here</a>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ***** Life is healthier with Olive Oil *****
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Others can subscribe to the OliveOil list by visiting:
>http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/OliveOil
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
</pre>
</td></tr></table>