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<pre>Good morning (Australian time),

Having raised this question and made reference to the people who
introduced me to the problem I received 16 emails last night from a
learned friend. Every one of them was from various articles in papers
and magazines giving examples of botulism (toxin) poisoning from matter
preserved in olive oil.

Although there are no recorded case of death or illness from olive oil
without something preserved in it my learned friend makes the point that
if sediment is contained in the oil then the conditions are right for
the growth of organisms. If I understand it correctly the smallest
filter used in oil filtration is 5 microns. If that is correct then
the C botulism spore which is smaller than 5 microns will pass through
into the oil. We only need one example to ruin us.

There is probably nothing in the world which can be taken as 100%
safe/correct, or whatever but it behoves us to do the best we can at the
bulk storage end of our process by removing the water/sediment.

Yours,
Dan (the unlearned!)

-----Original Message-----
From: sodium_9 [mailto:sodium@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 7:24 PM
To: OliveOil@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [OliveOil] Any Sinolea presses in Australia?

Hi,

Does anyone (else)in OZ have a Sinolea press? We have had one for
over forty years and while it is slow, it produces extremely high
quality oils, with no polyphenol loss due to water solution.

We are buying a decanter in the next few seasons, but will be keeping
the Sinolea and using it to produce an ultra-premium grade, family-
reserve style oil, which I think I can sell for AUD$40-50 per 375ml
bottle.

We recently blue printed our machine, replacing all bearings
and "battinis", had a new stainless steel malaxer jacket built and
installed and powder coated the machine to bring it back to "better
than new" condition.

I am curious to learn whether anyone else in this huge country has a
similar machine.


best,
Nick Andrews




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<pre>Dan,
Many thanks for your interesting posting. This should only serve to caution
the home/novice producers of certain unpasteurised tapenades, olive pates
and the like, although I would presume that the salt/acid content would
normally make these products absolutely safe.

Regards,

Guido

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Burnet" <springgullyolives@...>
Subject: [OliveOil] Botulism in Olive Oil


> Good morning (Australian time),
>
> Having raised this question and made reference to the people who
> introduced me to the problem I received 16 emails last night from a
> learned friend. Every one of them was from various articles in papers
> and magazines giving examples of botulism (toxin) poisoning from matter
> preserved in olive oil.
>
> Although there are no recorded case of death or illness from olive oil
> without something preserved in it my learned friend makes the point that
> if sediment is contained in the oil then the conditions are right for
> the growth of organisms. If I understand it correctly the smallest
> filter used in oil filtration is 5 microns. If that is correct then
> the C botulism spore which is smaller than 5 microns will pass through
> into the oil. We only need one example to ruin us.
>
> There is probably nothing in the world which can be taken as 100%
> safe/correct, or whatever but it behoves us to do the best we can at the
> bulk storage end of our process by removing the water/sediment.
>
> Yours,
> Dan (the unlearned!)
</pre>
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<pre>At 10:15 27/06/02 +0200, you wrote:
>
>Dan,
>Many thanks for your interesting posting. This should only serve to caution
>the home/novice producers of certain unpasteurised tapenades, olive pates
>and the like, although I would presume that the salt/acid content would
>normally make these products absolutely safe.
>
>Regards,
>
>Guido
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Dan Burnet" <springgullyolives@...>
>Subject: [OliveOil] Botulism in Olive Oil
>
> Dear Guido,

I think that you need to distinguish the toxin produced by the bacterium,
which I am not sure is affected by the salt and filtering, from the spores
which can be removed providing your filter size is small enough. Also, in
many of the botulism reports, it was the things added to the oil eg garlic
and fish that provided the vehicle.

Alfred Poulos
Megisti Oils
www.megistioils.com
hwlB/TM
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>
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>
>
>
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<pre>Prof Poulous message confirms what I (as an ignoramus) have been told by a
knowledgeable source.

In simple terms, Botulism is a bacterium or micro-organism. It requires the
absence of oxygen plus the presence of water to grow. The bacteria
themselves are not the problem, but they release a toxin , which is a
problem.

The chances of the spores being present in the oil or water in the oil are
extremely remote. There is a much greater chance, even though even that is
small, of the spores being found on vegetables, fruits or herbs being
pickled or infused into oil. If you wish to infuse the oil with e.g. garlic
cloves, these should be blanched in boiling water for 30 s beforehand.

Water in the oil is more of a quality concern, as it promotes oxidation and
thus the release of free fatty acids, i.e. the acidity of your oil will
increase rapidly if there is water in the oil.

As I said, I know very little about this, so please correct me if I am
wrong.


Just one last point on filters - be careful to ascertain whether the filter
rating is an average or absolute rating. Usually unspecified ratings are
average ratings, which means that a five micron rated filter will pass a
significant number of particles considerably in excess of five microns in
size. A filter with an absolute rating of five microns will not allow any
particles of five microns or greater to pass through it.

Kurt Küpper
kupper@...

-----Original Message-----
From: Alfred Poulos [mailto:apoulos@...]
Sent: Friday, 28 June 2002 19:17
To: OliveOil@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [OliveOil] Botulism in Olive Oil


At 10:15 27/06/02 +0200, you wrote:
>
>Dan,
>Many thanks for your interesting posting. This should only serve to
caution
>the home/novice producers of certain unpasteurised tapenades, olive pates
>and the like, although I would presume that the salt/acid content would
>normally make these products absolutely safe.
>
>Regards,
>
>Guido
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Dan Burnet" <springgullyolives@...>
>Subject: [OliveOil] Botulism in Olive Oil
>
> Dear Guido,

I think that you need to distinguish the toxin produced by the bacterium,
which I am not sure is affected by the salt and filtering, from the spores
which can be removed providing your filter size is small enough. Also, in
many of the botulism reports, it was the things added to the oil eg garlic
and fish that provided the vehicle.

Alfred Poulos
Megisti Oils
www.megistioils.com
hwlB/TM
>---------------------------------------------------------------------~->
>
>************************************************* *
>Post message: OliveOil@yahoogroups.com
>Subscribe: OliveOil-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>Unsubscribe: OliveOil-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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popular search engines? Check http://www.sadoun.com/submit for free tips.
>
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>
>
>


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<pre>Andrea/Kurt

You wrote:
The chances of the spores being present in the oil or water in the oil are
extremely remote. There is a much greater chance, even though even that is
small, of the spores being found on vegetables, fruits or herbs being
pickled or infused into oil. If you wish to infuse the oil with e.g. garlic
cloves, these should be blanched in boiling water for 30 s beforehand.

If you want to make garlic, lemon, rosemary or whatever oils why are you not
using the oil of the garlic, lemon, rosemary or whatever? These oils are
extracted by distillation, cold pressing or whatever method to Australian
standards and can be readily purchased from many a supplier. This would be
true world wide. Snapping off a rosemary twig and putting it in a bottle
can look attractive but it isn't necessarily a healthy thing to do. Lemons
only impart their oils if you use a particular type. And so on. Similarly
with garlic. If you use the whole clove make sure it is Australian garlic
that is used (within Australia) otherwise you will find the garlic
(typically
Chinese in our country) goes a nice vivid purple/blue colour because of the
various chemicals sprayed on the imported product at quarantine.

This changes of course when you use a different medium to flavour. Garlic
flavoured vinegar is wonderful as is rosemary flavoured red wine vinegar
etc.

Regards
Peter Caird
www.victorianolivegroves.com
AUSTRALIA


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<pre>Peter

As a matter of fact I use extracted oils of Basil, Chilli, Capsicum, Lemon
and Rosemary. Have not dared to try garlic yet, as I am unsure whether I
will ever get the taste/smell out of the filling machine again! I got a
sample of the oil, and after I opened it briefly the lab smelt of garlic for
a week.

But some people like to pickle the stuff in the oil or at least throw some
of it into the oil, probably because they think it enhances the visual
appeal of the product.

Incidentally, I have found quite an interesting bit on pickling mushrooms in
oil, which has a lot of detail on the botulism issue, much more scientific
than my previous posting. Go to
http://www.intercom.net/local/shore_.../mp010716.html

Do you know where I could purchase the course-notes for the HACCP course
that you mentioned?

Regards

Kurt Küpper
kupper@...
-----Original Message-----
From: P Caird [mailto:caird@...]
Sent: Sunday, 30 June 2002 22:56
To: OliveOil@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [OliveOil] Botulism in Olive Oil


Andrea/Kurt

You wrote:
The chances of the spores being present in the oil or water in the oil are
extremely remote. There is a much greater chance, even though even that
is
small, of the spores being found on vegetables, fruits or herbs being
pickled or infused into oil. If you wish to infuse the oil with e.g.
garlic
cloves, these should be blanched in boiling water for 30 s beforehand.

If you want to make garlic, lemon, rosemary or whatever oils why are you
not
using the oil of the garlic, lemon, rosemary or whatever? These oils are
extracted by distillation, cold pressing or whatever method to Australian
standards and can be readily purchased from many a supplier. This would
be
true world wide. Snapping off a rosemary twig and putting it in a bottle
can look attractive but it isn't necessarily a healthy thing to do.
Lemons
only impart their oils if you use a particular type. And so on.
Similarly
with garlic. If you use the whole clove make sure it is Australian garlic
that is used (within Australia) otherwise you will find the garlic
(typically
Chinese in our country) goes a nice vivid purple/blue colour because of
the
various chemicals sprayed on the imported product at quarantine.

This changes of course when you use a different medium to flavour. Garlic
flavoured vinegar is wonderful as is rosemary flavoured red wine vinegar
etc.

Regards
Peter Caird
www.victorianolivegroves.com
AUSTRALIA


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<pre>Kurt/Andrea

For the HACCP notes/documentation/queries try russog@... If a
prob there try Gino's website http://www.olivedirectory.com/ Contact
person is Gino Russo.

I agree about the visual appeal of garlic/rosemary. The odour of garlic oil
is a tad pervasive; I much prefer rosemary.

Regards
Peter Caird
www.victorianolivegroves.com
AUSTRALIA



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