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<pre>Dear all,

The olive groves of the Hunter Valley of NSW have suffered quite badly from
poor pollination. This we feel is due largely to some unseasonably hot, dry
winds during flowering in September.

However, we are also wondering if we have the correct mix of trees to
effectively cross pollinate the varieties we have planted. In one grove I
have a block of 500 Frantoio and a block of 500 Nevadillo Blanco, with a
small stand of eucalypts in between. The NB flowered bout 2 weeks before
the Frantoio, so there seems to have been little cross pollination.

Does anybody have any information about which varieties flower at the same
time and have pollen sufficiently different to enhance dross pollination.
This last part is based on my assumption that as Frantoio, Paragon &
Correggiola are all closely linked genetically (or the same thing?) then
there would be little to gain my planting one to cross pollinate the other?

Any information would be gratefully accepted, as I have a new 5000 tree
grove to plant in September, and I'd like to get it right the first time!

Regards,

Mike Wilson.
</pre>
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<pre>Mike,
The easiest way to solve the problem for your next planting of olives is to
plant the self fertile variety Signore(FS17).This
will give you superb quality oil of the Frantoio parentage with at least 2%
higher yields compared with Frantoio,earlier to yield(after the second full
winter in the ground),the ability to fully mechanize after the second year
all pruning and harvesting and not have the on going problems of worring
about pollinators.

The tradiional pollinators for Frantoio are Pendulino and Leccino planted as
10% of the grove.
Regards
Hartley Lewis
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Wilson [mailto:mike.wilson@...]
Sent: Wednesday, 18 December 2002 1:21 PM
To: Olives Groups
Subject: [OliveOil] Cross pollination


Dear all,

The olive groves of the Hunter Valley of NSW have suffered quite badly from
poor pollination. This we feel is due largely to some unseasonably hot, dry
winds during flowering in September.

However, we are also wondering if we have the correct mix of trees to
effectively cross pollinate the varieties we have planted. In one grove I
have a block of 500 Frantoio and a block of 500 Nevadillo Blanco, with a
small stand of eucalypts in between. The NB flowered bout 2 weeks before
the Frantoio, so there seems to have been little cross pollination.

Does anybody have any information about which varieties flower at the same
time and have pollen sufficiently different to enhance dross pollination.
This last part is based on my assumption that as Frantoio, Paragon &
Correggiola are all closely linked genetically (or the same thing?) then
there would be little to gain my planting one to cross pollinate the other?

Any information would be gratefully accepted, as I have a new 5000 tree
grove to plant in September, and I'd like to get it right the first time!

Regards,

Mike Wilson.



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</pre>
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<pre>Mike,
Your olive industry levy is working for you!! We just finished a PhD
project supported by AOA funds variously.

I don't know if you got to the olive conf. in Adelaide or not but I think
that report may have been presented by our group. I was away in NZ and did
not go.

No matter. I dont have the info you want to hand right now and I don't
know which parts of it are yet public so I will need to check. I presume
that you have ordered the trees anyway? If you have then I would like to
defer a reply to you until after Xmas. Is that possible? No time before for
me. I'm setting up next years courses, bookings and printing, etc.

That would also give me time to get right what I think is the case. The
bits that are embargoed are not that important but will be thus so that we
(or AOA) do not release info that MIGHT be wrong because we have not done
sufficient testing. We have got caught (internally) by thinking that a
couple of years data was giving a good picture on a few things. Not
serious, but it makes us very, very cautious. Its your money, not mine.

Could I ask where you got your trees from and where you will be getting
the new ones from? Useful so I can compare what the seller thought it was
versus what we think it is (both may be wrong!). That would help with the
x-poll suggestions to you.

Harass me with another email (to me) every 2 weeks please.

Regards, Bob

At 01:51 PM 18/12/02 +1100, you wrote:
>Dear all,
>
>The olive groves of the Hunter Valley of NSW have suffered quite badly from
>poor pollination. This we feel is due largely to some unseasonably hot, dry
>winds during flowering in September.
>
>However, we are also wondering if we have the correct mix of trees to
>effectively cross pollinate the varieties we have planted. In one grove I
>have a block of 500 Frantoio and a block of 500 Nevadillo Blanco, with a
>small stand of eucalypts in between. The NB flowered bout 2 weeks before
>the Frantoio, so there seems to have been little cross pollination.
>
>Does anybody have any information about which varieties flower at the same
>time and have pollen sufficiently different to enhance dross pollination.
>This last part is based on my assumption that as Frantoio, Paragon &
>Correggiola are all closely linked genetically (or the same thing?) then
>there would be little to gain my planting one to cross pollinate the other?
>
>Any information would be gratefully accepted, as I have a new 5000 tree
>grove to plant in September, and I'd like to get it right the first time!
>
>Regards,
>
>Mike Wilson.
>
>
</pre>
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<pre>> Mike,
> The easiest way to solve the problem for your next planting of olives is
to
> plant the self fertile variety Signore(FS17).This
> will give you superb quality oil of the Frantoio parentage with at least
2%
> higher yields compared with Frantoio,earlier to yield(after the second
full
> winter in the ground),the ability to fully mechanize after the second year
> all pruning and harvesting and not have the on going problems of worring
> about pollinators.
>
> The tradiional pollinators for Frantoio are Pendulino and Leccino planted
as
> 10% of the grove.
> Regards
> Hartley Lewis

Thanks Hartley, and by the return e-mail address of
Hartley@... can I safely assume you are in the nursery
business, and that you have some available? I'll be in touch off list to
discuss this.

Regards,

Mike Wilson.
</pre>
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<pre>> Mike,
> Your olive industry levy is working for you!! We just finished a PhD
> project supported by AOA funds variously.

Just as well I renewed my subscription the other week!
>
> I don't know if you got to the olive conf. in Adelaide or not but I think
> that report may have been presented by our group. I was away in NZ and did
> not go.
>
> No matter. I dont have the info you want to hand right now and I don't
> know which parts of it are yet public so I will need to check. I presume
> that you have ordered the trees anyway? If you have then I would like to
> defer a reply to you until after Xmas. Is that possible? No time before
for
> me. I'm setting up next years courses, bookings and printing, etc.
>

No problem. I haven't ordered yet.

> That would also give me time to get right what I think is the case. The
> bits that are embargoed are not that important but will be thus so that we
> (or AOA) do not release info that MIGHT be wrong because we have not done
> sufficient testing. We have got caught (internally) by thinking that a
> couple of years data was giving a good picture on a few things. Not
> serious, but it makes us very, very cautious. Its your money, not mine.

That's no problem at all. We will be planting in batches of a couple of
thousand over three years, so there is plenty of time to change direction
before the final lot go in.

>
> Could I ask where you got your trees from and where you will be getting
> the new ones from? Useful so I can compare what the seller thought it was
> versus what we think it is (both may be wrong!). That would help with the
> x-poll suggestions to you.
>

The previous trees, the ones that are not performing as well as I hoped,
mainly came from Olives Australia, although we did source some locally from
a small local nursery (since closed down) but I believe they took their
cuttings from trees originally supplied by Olives Australia. There may be
other factors at work too, as we have had poor fruit set right across the
valley, even in groves that have self-fertile Manzanillo, or a good mixture
of varieties. I'm just trying to cover all bases.

As for new ones, well we are open to offers!

Regards,

Mike.
</pre>
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<pre>Mike wrote

>However, we are also wondering if we have the correct mix of trees to
>effectively cross pollinate the varieties we have planted. In one grove I
>have a block of 500 Frantoio and a block of 500 Nevadillo Blanco, with a
>small stand of eucalypts in between. The NB flowered bout 2 weeks before
>the Frantoio, so there seems to have been little cross pollination.
>
Just an observation that I am sure most people in Oz have already noticed.
Olives and Eucalypts don't mix. Your stand of Eucalypts may be a possible cause
of your pollinating problem although it may also be the distance involved that
Brian C mentioned.

In any event, those in Oz must have noticed how poorly olive trees grow in
proximity to Eucalypts. I have not done too detailed a record but olives
planted near (say 20 metres) Murray River Red Gums are spindly and sickly
compared to same grove/variety olives 40 metres away. I have also noticed that
(in mid Victoria, Australia) Grey Box have a similar influence on the
development of the tree and therefore it's pollinating capacity.

That said I wonder about the foothills of Adelaide (South Australia) where the
olive is declared a noxious weed but from which (apparently) award winning oils
were derived from the olives grown there. Mmmmm.

Peace be with you all at this time of year. May the olive branch be extended by
all, to all.



Regards
Peter Caird
www.victorianolivegroves.com
AUSTRALIA


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</pre>
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<pre>Mike,

Our local cherry orchardist claims they have had only 10% of their usual fruit
set this year. They are not sure why that is, but have suggested that the bees
were not as active as they should have been due to unfavourable conditions for
them.

Could this be part of the problem?

Adrian Williams
Balingup, WA

Mike Wilson wrote:

> > Mike,
> > Your olive industry levy is working for you!! We just finished a PhD
> > project supported by AOA funds variously.
>
> Just as well I renewed my subscription the other week!
> >
> > I don't know if you got to the olive conf. in Adelaide or not but I think
> > that report may have been presented by our group. I was away in NZ and did
> > not go.
> >
> > No matter. I dont have the info you want to hand right now and I don't
> > know which parts of it are yet public so I will need to check. I presume
> > that you have ordered the trees anyway? If you have then I would like to
> > defer a reply to you until after Xmas. Is that possible? No time before
> for
> > me. I'm setting up next years courses, bookings and printing, etc.
> >
>
> No problem. I haven't ordered yet.
>
> > That would also give me time to get right what I think is the case. The
> > bits that are embargoed are not that important but will be thus so that we
> > (or AOA) do not release info that MIGHT be wrong because we have not done
> > sufficient testing. We have got caught (internally) by thinking that a
> > couple of years data was giving a good picture on a few things. Not
> > serious, but it makes us very, very cautious. Its your money, not mine.
>
> That's no problem at all. We will be planting in batches of a couple of
> thousand over three years, so there is plenty of time to change direction
> before the final lot go in.
>
> >
> > Could I ask where you got your trees from and where you will be getting
> > the new ones from? Useful so I can compare what the seller thought it was
> > versus what we think it is (both may be wrong!). That would help with the
> > x-poll suggestions to you.
> >
>
> The previous trees, the ones that are not performing as well as I hoped,
> mainly came from Olives Australia, although we did source some locally from
> a small local nursery (since closed down) but I believe they took their
> cuttings from trees originally supplied by Olives Australia. There may be
> other factors at work too, as we have had poor fruit set right across the
> valley, even in groves that have self-fertile Manzanillo, or a good mixture
> of varieties. I'm just trying to cover all bases.
>
> As for new ones, well we are open to offers!
>
> Regards,
>
> Mike.
>
> **************************************************
> Post message: OliveOil@yahoogroups.com
> Subscribe: OliveOil-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Unsubscribe: OliveOil-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Moderators: OliveOil-owner@yahoogroups.com
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>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
</pre>
</td></tr></table>

<table border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
<pre>Adrian,
The olive does not rely on bee activity for polination, preferring to
use the wind. That said, however, bees are active around the trees, but they are
not as important to the olive as they are to the other fruit trees.

I have noticed that some of our cultivars (notably those that "flowered" later)
were severely affected by the hot dry winds we had at the time. The flowers had
just formed buds and were about to open when the winds hit and the flowers ended
up brown and not open at all. Our Kalamata have NO fruit at all! and some of the
other later flowering cvs are likewise devoid of fruit. Bugger!!



Cheers (and all the best to all for the new year)
John Attwood
Tamworth
Northern NSW Au

Adrian Williams wrote:

> Mike,
>
> Our local cherry orchardist claims they have had only 10% of their
> usual fruit
> set this year. They are not sure why that is, but have suggested that
> the bees
> were not as active as they should have been due to unfavourable
> conditions for
> them.
>
> Could this be part of the problem?
>
> Adrian Williams
> Balingup, WA
>
> Mike Wilson wrote:
>
> > > Mike,
> > > Your olive industry levy is working for you!! We just finished a PhD
> > > project supported by AOA funds variously.
> >
> > Just as well I renewed my subscription the other week!
> > >
> > > I don't know if you got to the olive conf. in Adelaide or not but
> I think
> > > that report may have been presented by our group. I was away in NZ
> and did
> > > not go.
> > >
> > > No matter. I dont have the info you want to hand right now and I don't
> > > know which parts of it are yet public so I will need to check. I
> presume
> > > that you have ordered the trees anyway? If you have then I would
> like to
> > > defer a reply to you until after Xmas. Is that possible? No time
> before
> > for
> > > me. I'm setting up next years courses, bookings and printing, etc.
> > >
> >
> > No problem. I haven't ordered yet.
> >
> > > That would also give me time to get right what I think is the
> case. The
> > > bits that are embargoed are not that important but will be thus so
> that we
> > > (or AOA) do not release info that MIGHT be wrong because we have
> not done
> > > sufficient testing. We have got caught (internally) by thinking that a
> > > couple of years data was giving a good picture on a few things. Not
> > > serious, but it makes us very, very cautious. Its your money, not
> mine.
> >
> > That's no problem at all. We will be planting in batches of a couple of
> > thousand over three years, so there is plenty of time to change
> direction
> > before the final lot go in.
> >
> > >
> > > Could I ask where you got your trees from and where you will be
> getting
> > > the new ones from? Useful so I can compare what the seller thought
> it was
> > > versus what we think it is (both may be wrong!). That would help
> with the
> > > x-poll suggestions to you.
> > >
> >
> > The previous trees, the ones that are not performing as well as I hoped,
> > mainly came from Olives Australia, although we did source some
> locally from
> > a small local nursery (since closed down) but I believe they took their
> > cuttings from trees originally supplied by Olives Australia. There
> may be
> > other factors at work too, as we have had poor fruit set right
> across the
> > valley, even in groves that have self-fertile Manzanillo, or a good
> mixture
> > of varieties. I'm just trying to cover all bases.
> >
> > As for new ones, well we are open to offers!
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Mike.
> >
> > **************************************************
> > Post message: OliveOil@yahoogroups.com
> > Subscribe: OliveOil-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > Unsubscribe: OliveOil-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > Moderators: OliveOil-owner@yahoogroups.com
> > **************************************************
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> >
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> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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<pre>I dont accept that the wind was the sole contributing factor in poor
pollination in the Hunter?.Why? - because I know of several groves with
good fruit. One has kalamata/jumbo kalamata/koroneiki/volos/manzanillo
you name it all loaded. In the Hunter every year you hear that its
either too hot/cold/windy/dry/wet take your pick. The problem is lack of
knowledge. I dont understand why we have to build up our own data and
ignore the experience of italians, greeks etc who have been doing it for
many years. Maybe what they say doesnt fit well into a spreadsheet. It
takes time and patience.







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
</pre>
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<table border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
<pre>> I dont accept that the wind was the sole contributing factor in poor
> pollination in the Hunter?.Why? - because I know of several groves with
> good fruit. One has kalamata/jumbo kalamata/koroneiki/volos/manzanillo
> you name it all loaded. In the Hunter every year you hear that its
> either too hot/cold/windy/dry/wet take your pick. The problem is lack of
> knowledge. I dont understand why we have to build up our own data and
> ignore the experience of italians, greeks etc who have been doing it for
> many years. Maybe what they say doesnt fit well into a spreadsheet. It
> takes time and patience.

Dear Roger,

I didn't claim that wind was the sole contributing factor in poor
pollenation.

Wind was one of several factors, all of which have combined to make this a
fairly poor year. Another factor was that many trees had a huge crop on last
season and didn't set up much new foliage, hence little fruiting wood, hence
a reduced crop.
Another factor is that many growers pruned their trees hard for the first
time, and perhaps in-expertly, and have put the trees into a vegetative
state, rather than a fruit-bearing state this season. Also the drought
hasn't been kind to many rural indusries, olives included, and the lack of
soil moisture over winter meant a poor fruit set.

My question about pollenation was based on two particular groves, one of
which has a block of young Nevadillo Blanco trees which have a large
proportion of shot berries. This is usually an indicator of poor
pollenation. The other reason for my question is that I am about to source
some trees for a new grove, and as I would like to get it right the first
time, I thought it wise to ask the members of an international olive list
for some advise. Fortunately, some very useful advise has come by way (from
Italy amongst other places) and I have a far better idea of what varieties
to plant and why to plant them.

While you are on the subject, I am in the position of wanting to buy fruit
this season, so if any of these groves with a decent crop are interested in
selling any fruit (oil or table) I am in the market. Contact by e-mail
(mike.wilson@...) or phone 0419 244785.

Regards,

Mike Wilson.
</pre>
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