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<pre>Dear Peter Carid, Andrew, Ian & Jenny, Steve Sibbett and all the
others sharing in this discussion,

Before starting the main subject I would like to say that for me as a
grower, good olive news really brings happiness to my soul. So for a
change, let us share on something bit cheerful first.

Peter, from the features you have described for both the fruit and
the oil, the recent unknown variety with 17% oil yield (after 5 days
from harvesting!) could be Coratina (I am saying could!). Down here,
we appreciate this variety very much. Among its few set backs is that
it is self-sterile and pollinators should be selected carefully.

As you are going to propagate in any event and if it really turns out
to be Coratina, I would like to know what varieties are grown in the
vicinity and if it is grown on its own, then the next question would
be, what about the yield.

If you have not read my article of AOG issue 14, November 1999 on
variety selection; then I would like to recall the following "
Literally speaking there is no variety taken for granted as a
"good
variety" or "bad variety", but when selecting a variety,
you are
actually choosing the problems you are willing to face.

Surprisingly enough I have received today a message from Shehryar
Mazari from Pakistan, who is a member of this group and he was asking
about this variety. I hope you will be reading this message and I
promise to send you all the information you are asking for in few
days. I wish I could have had more hours in the day!

And a similar promise to Steve Sibbett, who, some 20 years ago,
contributed in triggering the modern Egyptian Olive Industry. I will
send you a status report.

FEW MORE COMMENTS:

 To the best of my knowledge, no literature has ever
introduced
Manzanillo (or for that matter its sub-C) as an oil variety. Even in
this discussion, none of those who contributed, including myself,
ever mentioned this variety as such. Now, I understand that OZ
growers are disappointed because, some how, they have been told that
Manzanillo is a top oil variety (this means quantity and quality).
 In my first message, I have drawn the attention that this
variety
could be only called Manzanillo while it is not. Steve Sibbett said
that it does not appear to be performing as a typical Manzanillo.
Mission! then tested at the World Germplasm Bank of Olive Cultivars
to be certified as MANZAN SEVILLA. From the Spanish paper quoted in
my previous message, MS produces 20.1% oil. Something is still
confusing! Testing is not questioned here! That it is why I am
calling it the (X) variety.
 Neither climatic conditions nor cultural practices could
severely
affect the oil yield from 20.1% down to < 1% and again we can not
blame a "true to type Manzanillo" for such a result. More
confusion!
 How about considering another variable? What is the
behavior of
this (X) variety supplied by the same nursery(s) in consecutive
years? I am still thinking of different varieties altogether. The
results we have so far are supposed to be from 4 years old trees.
What if the nursery(s) have changed the source of their propagating
materials later. If I would have known the contact details of Garry
and Narelle Heaney in Pokolbin, I would have contacted them to know
the result of their Manzanillo crop on their two and half years old
trees. Would Peter Carid do it and let us know? From the pictures on
page 24 of AOG issue 16, it seems to me from the leaves and the
fruits that it is Manzanillo similar to my own grown here in Egypt.
 Table varieties bring more return to growers both as "a
first hand
cash flow" and "better prices". But why do not we all
plant table
varieties? It is market demands, which consume more oil in a similar
way to consuming more wine than they ever consume fresh grapes. Dual-
purpose varieties like Manzanila C., Hojiblanca and Alorena offer
their producers more marketing flexibility than would single table
varieties.
 As a consultant to a major project in WA, I share you all
the same
frustration and confusion and I am still anxiously waiting for oil
yield results from older plantations of this (X) variety in WA.
 Yes it is a waste of time and money and I am inclined to
support
Steve in his thoughts of top working but after evaluating this (X)
variety for another season and performing more research. Under OZ
conditions, top working is going to be very expensive due to scarcity
of labor in general and experienced hands in specific. With the so
far planted huge numbers of this (X) variety it is going to be a
massive operation that will not be done overnight. It might take
years and will not finish with the graft of scions, but will start
only there. It needs close frequent attention to remove suckers from
the (X) stock and train the new tree. Also the way OZs are training
their current young trees for mechanical harvesting may add
complications to the process.
All needs careful rational thinking and other options should not be
excluded before thorough evaluation.

Regards
Mohamed El-Kholy
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<pre>Marhaba Mohammad,

Thank you for your valuable contributions to the olive discussion group.

I recently spent a month in Syria looking at 'crumblies' as my daughter
calls them. The Crusaders would have been appalled to hear that their works
of medieval military defenses were consigned to history as such! After
viewing the Roman ruins at Palymra and then seeing Beirut for the first time
she complained about "more crumbly Roman ruins!".

The other area of interest for me were olives. The Sadoun family in Jordan
kindly gave me a tour of their groves and processing plant which was very
interesting. Unfortunately it was not the right time of the year to see the
processing in operation.

In Syria I tried to make contact with olive growers and producers but as the
industry has been primarily aimed at the domestic market (they are or were
the 6th largest producers of olive oil (?) in the world - that makes for a
very high domestic consumption of only about 18million people) not a lot of
information was available.

My question relates to varieties. There are a lot of table olives in street
markets and they are referred to as being Aleppo olives, Palymra olives,
Jebel Sheik, Hama etc. However, I could not ascertain their botanical names
and so I have no idea from whence they came. Are there any similarities
between Syrian and Egyptian olive cultivars? Are you aware of the names of
any of the Syrian c.v.s?

Thanks,

Phil Bramley
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<pre><snip>

> What if the nursery(s) have changed the source of their propagating
> materials later. If I would have known the contact details of Garry
> and Narelle Heaney in Pokolbin, I would have contacted them to know
> the result of their Manzanillo crop on their two and half years old
> trees. Would Peter Carid do it and let us know?



>
> Regards
> Mohamed El-Kholy

Dear Mohaned,

Thanks for the various emails to the group and the very readable articles in
AO magazine.

I am a neighbour of Garry & Narelle Heaney and have Manzanillo trees in the
ground of a year longer than them, sourced from the same nursery (Olives
Australia). When I bought my trees some were described as UC13A6, which
turned out to be Manzanillo, so along with the trees I bought as Manzanillo
and the "UC13A6" I have 200 trees, 4 years old and bearing their first crop
this year.

We had a lot of late summer rain which seems to have swelled up the olives
and probably driven up the weight at the expense of the oil content ratio,
but I picked an average of 15kg per tree, which went for oil extracrion by
the Hunter Olive Co-operative. The first batch, picked at about 50% green,
yielded around 6% oil, but I don't yet have back figures from the second
batch, picked 3 to 4 weeks later and about 20% green.

I also had some small crop off Sevillano, virtually nothing off Hardy's
Mammoth, and some small amount of fruit from Kalamata, which were on grafted
roots (grafted onto Paragon) where the rootstock has taken over the tree, so
I now have 30 Paragon trees, each with a branch of Kalamata!

I have just spoken to Narelle and she is very happy with the quality of the
oil, not so impressed with the yield. Most of their trees are Paragon and
they seem to have better results with the Paragon than the Manzanillo.

Regards,

Mike Wilson,
Twin Trees Cottages,
Pokolbin.
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