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<pre>Dear Maurice

You mentioned in your previous message that you "are required by law to meet
very stringent requirements in all stages from the tree to the finished
product." I remember a few years ago, maybe 7-9 years ago, one of the olive
processors in California was in trouble with the EPA. I believe it was for
polluting the underground water with brine water or something. Then they
closed it up and forced them to bankruptcy.

Did they, the processor of the EPA, solve the problem?

What about the vegetable water by-product that the olive mills produce? How
do the mills in California manage to get rid of this water right now?

I would like to hear from member of other countries as well on this matter.

Sincerely

Jamal Sadoun
</pre>
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<pre>I recall what your talking about
it was the lindsey olive canning plaint in lindsey calif
as I recall the story teh brine pits out side the plain were leaching too much
salt in to surounding ground water
as i recall this was watse brine that put in to small ponds out side to
evaperate
I don't know the final fate of the plaint
but that is as much as I can recall
WALT K

Sadoun wrote:

> From: "Sadoun" <ASadoun@worldnet.att.net>
>
> Dear Maurice
>
> You mentioned in your previous message that you "are required by law to meet
> very stringent requirements in all stages from the tree to the finished
> product." I remember a few years ago, maybe 7-9 years ago, one of the olive
> processors in California was in trouble with the EPA. I believe it was for
> polluting the underground water with brine water or something. Then they
> closed it up and forced them to bankruptcy.
>
> Did they, the processor of the EPA, solve the problem?
>
> What about the vegetable water by-product that the olive mills produce? How
> do the mills in California manage to get rid of this water right now?
>
> I would like to hear from member of other countries as well on this matter.
>
> Sincerely
>
> Jamal Sadoun
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Come check out our brand new web site!
> http://www.onelist.com
> Onelist: Making the Internet intimate
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> If you like this list, then invite others to join!
</pre>
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<pre>In a message dated 3/8/99 9:03:37 PM Eastern Standard Time,
ASadoun@worldnet.att.net writes:

<< What about the vegetable water by-product that the olive mills produce? How
do the mills in California manage to get rid of this water right now? >>

This might be a really stupid question, so if it is, please forgive my
ignorance on the subject. Anyway -- can the water by-product from the oil
processing be used as a fertilizer, or is it naturally of a pH or have a
content which would make this impossible.
You see, here in Kentucky where people are still trying to live by growing
tobacco, the stalks from the previous year's crop are laid out on the fields
in the winter and left there until the ground is tilled to prepare for setting
the seedlings. The reason is that the tobacco plants leech so much nitrogen
out of the soil, and there is a significant amount of nitrogen in the plant
stalks, that by laying the stalks on the ground, the rain and snow over the
winter and spring puts the nitrogen back into the soil.
Also, in places where cheese is made, commercial whey is made available to
farmers as a by-product of the cheese making process, and this is used in a
variety of ways by farmers. I've heard that it is used to supplement hog feed
and as fertilizer.
Wouldn't it be wonderful if the water which is a by-product of the oil
pressing process could be used in such a way! However, as I said, I don't
know enough about the chemical content of the water thus extracted to know if
this would be feasible.

Meanwhile, if any one is interested in my continuing research on the olive
oil soap trade prior to 1600 A.D., I have found some materials published
regarding archaeological evidence of olive oil being available in such
profusion it was considered an "exploitable resource", and hence was
considered an economical choice for use in oil-burning lamps.

Blessings to all,
bets

Betsy Packard
Shelby County, KY
</pre>
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<pre>To Bestsy Packard:
Hi,
I read your posting on the OliveOil list... this is my first posting and
I don't know if I'm supposed to reply directly to you or to the list,
but anyway, I'm interested in olive oil soap making.
I live in southern California but my father has a small ranch in Baja
California, Mexico and we've just planted some olive trees. There are a
lot of olive producers in Baja and I thought that someone (maybe me!)
could package the olives, oil and even make soap for sale in the US.
Any information you could share, or resources you could point me to for
soapmaking would be helpful.
And, how do I find the OliveOil list "thread"? I just receive the
messages in random order, with no history. The list is hard to follow
in this way.
I look forward to your reply.
Thanks,
Alonso


>From errors-60195-125-alonsoflores=hotmail.com@onelist.com Tue Mar 9
08:52:22 1999
>Received: (qmail 7945 invoked by alias); 9 Mar 1999 17:04:58 -0000
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(EST)
>From: BPack55294@aol.com
>Message-ID: <e64942fe.36e54e69@aol.com>
>Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 11:38:01 EST
>To: OliveOil@onelist.com
>X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13
>Mailing-List: list OliveOil@onelist.com; contact
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>Subject: [OliveOil] Re: By products
>
>From: BPack55294@aol.com
>
> Without getting any direct responses to my less-than-informed question
about
>potential uses for the water by-product, having read more in the
thread,
>OBVIOUSLY there is too high a salt content in this by-product for it to
be
>used "agriculturally".
> However, I'm thinking that there is a whole line of "beauty products"
which
>use water from the Dead Sea, supposedly because the salt content of the
water
>has benefit to the human skin. So, in reading Adrian's posting about
the
>antioxidant qualities of the water produced in the pressing operation,
as a
>soapmaker, I couldn't help but wonder . . .
> What if, instead of the de-ionized water which is often used in the
>soapmaking process, the water used for the lye solution could be this
by-
>product? Not being chemically oriented at all, I do have to wonder if
the
>high salt content would disrupt the action of the lye in the
saponification
>process, though barilla ash has a high salt content, and that is what
has been
>used for centuries to extract the lye for soapmaking! One benefit from
>producing a soap with salt content is that you get a nice hard soap!
If the
>water used in the soap making also had the antioxidant qualities, would
those
>qualities 1) remain in tact through the soapmaking processes, and 2)
would
>any benefit be realized from using such a soap?
> Naturally, if the answer is "yes" to both of the above questions, then
olive
>oil soap making industry should be located as closely to the pressing
sites as
>possible, for transporting quantities of this by-product would be
impractical.
>Water weighs about 10 lbs per gallon, so shipping massive amounts of
this
>water would be costly.
> Has anyone tried making soap by using the water by-product in addition
to
>using 100% olive oil? I think it is a concept worth considering!
>
> (Thanks to all for putting up with my level of ignorance and for
asking what
>probably seem to be silly questions!)
> bets
>
>Betsy Packard
>
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</pre>
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<table border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
<pre>Without getting any direct responses to my less-than-informed question about
potential uses for the water by-product, having read more in the thread,
OBVIOUSLY there is too high a salt content in this by-product for it to be
used "agriculturally".
However, I'm thinking that there is a whole line of "beauty products" which
use water from the Dead Sea, supposedly because the salt content of the water
has benefit to the human skin. So, in reading Adrian's posting about the
antioxidant qualities of the water produced in the pressing operation, as a
soapmaker, I couldn't help but wonder . . .
What if, instead of the de-ionized water which is often used in the
soapmaking process, the water used for the lye solution could be this by-
product? Not being chemically oriented at all, I do have to wonder if the
high salt content would disrupt the action of the lye in the saponification
process, though barilla ash has a high salt content, and that is what has been
used for centuries to extract the lye for soapmaking! One benefit from
producing a soap with salt content is that you get a nice hard soap! If the
water used in the soap making also had the antioxidant qualities, would those
qualities 1) remain in tact through the soapmaking processes, and 2) would
any benefit be realized from using such a soap?
Naturally, if the answer is "yes" to both of the above questions, then olive
oil soap making industry should be located as closely to the pressing sites as
possible, for transporting quantities of this by-product would be impractical.
Water weighs about 10 lbs per gallon, so shipping massive amounts of this
water would be costly.
Has anyone tried making soap by using the water by-product in addition to
using 100% olive oil? I think it is a concept worth considering!

(Thanks to all for putting up with my level of ignorance and for asking what
probably seem to be silly questions!)
bets

Betsy Packard
</pre>
</td></tr></table>

<table border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
<pre>> What about the vegetable water by-product that the olive mills produce? How
> do the mills in California manage to get rid of this water right now?

Anyone interested in this subject, especially how we might use such water,
may like to read:

Visioli, F., Vinceri, F.F. & Galli, C. (1995) Waste-Waters from Olive Oil
Production are Rich in Natural Antioxidants. Experientia 51:1, 32-34.

The abstract is included below:

Milling of olive paste during olive oil production is accompanied by
continuous washing with water, i.e. malaxation. The resulting 'waste- water'
is currently discarded. Since olives and olive oil are rich in natural
antioxidants, we hypothesized that some of these might be extracted from the
olive paste during malaxation, Interest in natural antioxidants is increasing
because of the growing body of evidence indicating the involvement of
oxygen-derived free radicals in several pathological processes, such as cancer
and atherosclerosis. A waste- water extract was characterized by HPLC and
tested in a model of lipid peroxidation, copper sulphate-induced oxidation of
low density lipoproteins. The results demonstrate that waste-water extracts
have powerful antioxidant activity and might therefore represent a cheap, as
yet unused, source of natural antioxidants.

It would appear that a valuable resource is being thrown away; if only we
could find a way to do something with this stuff...

Adrian
</pre>
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end
</pre>
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<pre>Dear Sadoun

The processing operation that you are talking about was Linsay Olive
Growers, a co-operative that processed olives for grower members. The EPA
did in fact close the plant for non compliance with directives from
California State Water Quality. Due to poor managment and lack of
diligence from member growers in watching their co-op,
the members suffered heavy financial losses in their revolving funds and
were not paid compleatley for the crops that were delivered. The ensuing
auction to pay creditors sent equipment to several countries including
Turkey. In fact dialoge was opened to see if I would be receptive to going
to Turkey to operate a much downsized plant processing Caifornia black ripe
olives destined for US markets if the principles were able to consumate the
purchase of the plant. With our operation here I could not leave.
The problem still exists in Linsay with ground water contamination. One of
the proposals was to inject water into the ground and pump it out down
stream of the problem areas thus diluting the salt concentration.
Operating oil mills at present fall under strict Water Quality controls.
BOD levels have to be very low inorder to discharge into municipal wast
water treatment so a number of techniques are employed. Digestion,
filtration, settleing are but a few of the methods.
One of the earlier E-mails commented about "Baladi" olives, do you have any
recipes or direct to somebody that can assist me in learning different
methods.

Regards

Maurice Penna

----------
> From: Sadoun <ASadoun@worldnet.att.net>
> To: OliveOil@onelist.com
> Subject: [OliveOil] By products
> Date: Monday, March 08, 1999 5:59 PM
>
> From: "Sadoun" <ASadoun@worldnet.att.net>
>
> Dear Maurice
>
> You mentioned in your previous message that you "are required by law to
meet
> very stringent requirements in all stages from the tree to the finished
> product." I remember a few years ago, maybe 7-9 years ago, one of the
olive
> processors in California was in trouble with the EPA. I believe it was
for
> polluting the underground water with brine water or something. Then they
> closed it up and forced them to bankruptcy.
>
> Did they, the processor of the EPA, solve the problem?
>
> What about the vegetable water by-product that the olive mills produce?
How
> do the mills in California manage to get rid of this water right now?
>
> I would like to hear from member of other countries as well on this
matter.
>
> Sincerely
>
> Jamal Sadoun
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Come check out our brand new web site!
> http://www.onelist.com
> Onelist: Making the Internet intimate
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> If you like this list, then invite others to join!
</pre>
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<table border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
<pre>Dear M&CP Farms,

I think you've got worms! Please go and swallow a dose of that nasty pink
stuff before posting again! (the web site Sadoun mentions tells you what to
do)

As Sadoun wrote:
------- Begin Included Message -------
Hello,

Recently there have been several reports of a virus being passed through
lists in attachments. The virus, called Happy99, modifies infected
computers so that they spread the virus to other computers through email
attachments.

For more information on this particular virus, and how to remove it, visit the
following web page:


http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/ven...py99.worm.html

------- End Included Message -------
--
Adrian.Shaw@aber.ac.uk
Institute of Biological Sciences, University of Wales,
Aberystwyth, Ceredigion, Wales
http://pcjagg.dbs.aber.ac.uk/index.html
</pre>
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<pre>Dear Alonso

>And, how do I find the OliveOil list "thread"?

All archives of the OliveOil community messages are stored on the OneList
web site. They are private archives, which are viewable only by
subscribers.
All you have to do to view the archives is to access your "Member Center" at
www.onelist.com . Then you will see a list of the mailing lists you are
subscribed to. Pick "OliveOil" and you will be sent to another screen
called the "List Center". In it pick "View Archives". You will see today
latest messages. If you want to see older messages, then click on "Archive
Index". Good luck.

If you are using Outlook Express, you can manage and save all of the
OliveOil messages you receive and send by doing the following:

- Create a new folder under your Inbox folder, call it OliveOil. You can do
that by clicking on the Inbox folder by the right hand button of the mouse.
- Then go to "Tools" in the menu above and pick "Inbox Assistant".
- Pick "Add"
- In the To box write OliveOil@onelist.com
- Pick "Move to:" and click on Folder
- Pick the OliveOil folder you've just created under Inbox.
- Then click on Ok after that.

Sincerely
Jamal Sadoun

P.S. Thanks Luis Pujo for the "worm" Happy99 warning.
</pre>
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