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> There are 5 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
> 1. Re: RE: Soapmaking oils
> From: AlFreedo@aol.com
> 2. Re: New Generation Stick For harvesting olives
> From: "Mike Wilson" <mike.wilson@hunterlink.net.au>
> 3. Re: re: Gingin
> From: John Attwood <johnat@oxleyolives.au2.com>
> 4. Re: re: Gingin
> From: "Mike Wilson" <mike.wilson@hunterlink.net.au>
Subject: Re: re: Gingin
>
> Roger,
> Your, slightly unfair and somewhat innacurate, comments ...
>
> Roger Farquhar wrote:
>
>> Bill et al,
>>
>> The olive industry in Australia (ie the 'new wave' of professional semi
>> retirees) is characterised by two elements, mechanical harvesting &
>> irrigation. These influence grove layout & cv choice & are over & above
>> any other factors. Considerations of winter chill units, oil quality &
>> stability, tolerance to disease & humidity are secondary. I believe that
>> without the promise of mechanical harvesting many even most people would
>> not have invested in this industry. To date the only manifestation of
>> these devices has been in magazine articles. The adaptation of the tree
>> by pruning to give a clear trunk for harvesting has had serious
>> consequences on tree vigour for many reasons & the everpresent need to
>> be suitable for a tree shaker has overruled all others.
>
> In some cases, I believe you are right, but ... in most cases, a
> thorough research of the available (and that is available at the time)
> literature/experts was undertaken. There are such devices in existence
> around the traps at the moment. We (the Tamworth & District Olive
> Growers Association) are holding a harvesting field day at which we
> should have a fair selection of harvesting devices available for viewing
> (and viewing the results).
>
> In any venture, one takes whatever advice can be had, make a choice
> based on the evidence available and then live with that choice. When I
> was planning my grove, I was told, from several sources of good repute
> that there would be a need for 8 * 5 metre spacing. The reasons included
> sunlight penetration and harvesting requirements.
>
> Unless you were already an expert when you started, I bet you took
> advice and structured your planting plans accordingly.
>
>> Irrigation has also had a negative impact in that proper drainage has
>> been overlooked, irrational watering cycles employed, root growth
>> ignored & the more serious factor of an inability to modify or adapt
>> existing grove layouts to local conditions due to the existence of main
>> & lateral pipeworks. Irrigation has been employed almost universally in
>> new groves under the belief that (projected) yields & therefore profits
>> will increase dramatically.
>
> Is there any evidence for this really wide, sweeping statement?
> Irrigation is employed as a means of supplementing the (very fickle)
> natural irrigation method. Without it, I suggest that many of the groves
> planted would be very dead!
>
>> These two factors have caused a gridlock in thinking & are stopping the
>> proper understanding of the tree physiology.
>
> Another sweeping ststement with little supporting argument. Again, we
> are all learning (yes, I suspect, even you) about the needs of the tree
> under our particular conditions. In a place as large as Australia, there
> are significant differences between groves, even those fairly close to
> each other, because of soil, previous use of the area, aspect and
> rainfall patterns.
>
>> New growers should canvas views from a wide area. Publications can be
>> very useful but be mindful of any editorial bias. At present 'new wave'
>> growers are unable to tolerate any comments or views that do not comply
>> with their own beliefs. Speak to as many people as possible including (&
>> especially) Greek or Italian growers for a more balanced view.
>
> Yes, but they do not have the climatic variations, etc that we have
> here. There are still differences between these so-called experts from
> the "traditional" growing areas, often based on preference for a
> particular style of olive or oil. There is no reason to follow the
> traditions of these areas when we have the opportunity to create our own
> tradition.
>
> BTW Roger, are you an 'old wave' grower? How do you define the term
> 'new wave'?
>
>> Don't pay
>> too much attention to suppliers, advisers etc unless you have absolute
>> confidence in their objectivity. Too much information is left out &
>> until you know enough to ask the right questions dont make any decisions.
>
> And you never get to know enough unless you have tried some of the
> things suggested and find out they don't work! OR unless you talk to
> someone who has tried and failed. Listen to them, as they will have
> learned valuable lessons, often at great expense, and will be most happy
> to share their experiences with you.
>
> Also, don't take too much notice of self-styled experts. They will give
> their own bias to the information they provide. I'd suggets that there
> is no such thing as an expert in Australia or NZ. We are, as I already
> mentioned, still learning.
>
>>
>>
>> Roger Farquhar
Since I started this thread about Gingin I would like to say that I have
many positive comments from Aussie people interested in furthering the
industry. I got the answer to my fundamental question from this newsgroup.

But I must say as scientist that there are a few fundamentals that nature
will not let us move past no matter what our opinions are. Sure, I'll be
the first to recognize that any agricultural practise is always dominated -
(and maybe rightly so) with the wisdom of those who went before, but if you
are new and your ground is new and your collective experience stretches back
no more than a few years, then there are are some things that you must
acknowledge. The pH of the soil is critical to the availability of
elements. If you don't know what that means, then get a decent text on soil
science and relate that to your ground. Do the tests. Do them before you
buy the land.

There seems to be a way to go. I have suggested to others in Australia that
there seems o be several unanswered questions that (Cf grape growers, they
can answer easily). What is "ripe". Can that question be answered by new
technology or not? Even if it can, how do growers blend the science with
the agricultural practise? Exciting challenges.


Bill
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