<table border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
<pre>Dear all,

I am after some comments on an olive oil I made this year.

A couple of months ago this oil was featured in a tasting of 2005 local
olive oils and it came out looking pretty good. Aromatic, plenty of depth
and flavour. I had high hopes for the oil to win medals at the shows. Then
last weekend the Hunter Olive Show was held and the oil did not score well
at all. It had gone flat and boring. I have since re-tasted it and I agree
with the judges - flat and boring. Not actually faulty, but not at all
interesting. The oil was tested by the IOOC accredited lab in Wagga Wagga
and came out fine as EVOO and no problems.

I have a number of theories that might be the cause of this, and I'd be
grateful for any comments of anybody with similar experience. The oil was
predominantly Frantoio with some Manzanillo, pressed on a small Enorrosi
hammer mill without any additional heating and using the traditional mat
press rather than a centrifuge for extraction. Picked fairly ripe - probably
90% black - by hand, pressed the following day.

Options for what went wrongs are:

1. It is Frantoio, and this is what tends to happen to this variety (the
comments of a very experienced grower)
2. The oil was left too long on its muddy lees (about 4 months)
3. The oil was stored with too much exposure to air (60 litre plastic drum,
half empty for 4 months)
4. The oil was unfiltered and the vegetable matter has contaminated the oil
5. The oil was stored next to table olives in brine and this has affected
the flavours
6. The olives were picked too ripe and the polyphenol level is too low for
stability
7. The sansa was malaxed too long and the oil over-extracted somehow (we got
about 22%)
8. Something else
9. All of the above!

Many thanks,

Mike Wilson
Hunter Valley.
</pre>
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<pre>Hi Mike

not wanting to sound like a smart arse but I think No. 8 is your best
option. Trade shows are good for industry exposure but the real judge
is the cash register.
</pre>
</td></tr></table>

<table border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
<pre>Dear Mike,

In my opinion the source of your oil degradation is
the air.
Olive oil loses its qualities trough oxidation, so one
should minimise the exposition of olive oil to air,
the containers should always be kept full and made of
a material that is impermeable to oxygen (which
plastic is not). Polyphenols are the main endogenous
barrier to the oxidation, they get oxidised instead of
the oil.

What happened with your oil was, keeping it in a large
half filled plastic container the volatile aromas
(small volatile molecules that are the first component
of OO flavour) got slowly lost in so many air, second
the polyphenols (the second component of OO flavour)
got oxidised, if you leave the oil in this conditions
for a few more months all the polyphenols will be lost
and the OO will no longer have any protection from
oxidation and you will end up with a Lamp ant OO
instead of a EVOO.

Regardes,

João Correia

--- Mike Wilson <mike.wilson@...> ha
scritto:


---------------------------------
Dear all,

I am after some comments on an olive oil I made this
year.

A couple of months ago this oil was featured in a
tasting of 2005 local
olive oils and it came out looking pretty good.
Aromatic, plenty of depth
and flavour. I had high hopes for the oil to win
medals at the shows. Then
last weekend the Hunter Olive Show was held and the
oil did not score well
at all. It had gone flat and boring. I have since
re-tasted it and I agree
with the judges - flat and boring. Not actually
faulty, but not at all
interesting. The oil was tested by the IOOC accredited
lab in Wagga Wagga
and came out fine as EVOO and no problems.

I have a number of theories that might be the cause of
this, and I'd be
grateful for any comments of anybody with similar
experience. The oil was
predominantly Frantoio with some Manzanillo, pressed
on a small Enorrosi
hammer mill without any additional heating and using
the traditional mat
press rather than a centrifuge for extraction. Picked
fairly ripe - probably
90% black - by hand, pressed the following day.

Options for what went wrongs are:

1. It is Frantoio, and this is what tends to happen to
this variety (the
comments of a very experienced grower)
2. The oil was left too long on its muddy lees (about
4 months)
3. The oil was stored with too much exposure to air
(60 litre plastic drum,
half empty for 4 months)
4. The oil was unfiltered and the vegetable matter has
contaminated the oil
5. The oil was stored next to table olives in brine
and this has affected
the flavours
6. The olives were picked too ripe and the polyphenol
level is too low for
stability
7. The sansa was malaxed too long and the oil
over-extracted somehow (we got
about 22%)
8. Something else
9. All of the above!

Many thanks,

Mike Wilson
Hunter Valley.







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</pre>
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<pre>Hi Mike,
No doubt you will have many comments on this matter.
Firstly, before anything else, having been a judge at
the SA Olive Show, I would say it has been a difficult
growing season with few stand out oils and most oils
being quite soft on the palate. The fact that your oil
tested as extra virgin doesn't mean much. Very few
oils entered in the shows are faulty or not extra
virgin these days. Being extra virgin is a basic
requirement. I'll try to be brief and to the point:

Suggest you skip the mat press and use a continuous
press. Mat press tends to produce a softer oil with
more chance of contamination/oxidation.I disagree with
the assessment of frantoio. Of course it depends on so
many factors but in my experience frantoio evoo
maintains its flavour characteristics very well,
longer than most other varieties. Manzanillo can be
much more tricky. If you want your oil to improve then
increase the proportion of green olives. Again picking
too ripe might increase volume but you get a softer
oil that may not be as stable. I doubt that 4 months
on lees is the problem. It settles to the bottom and
has a preservative effect too. Storage in 1/2 empty
plastic is very problematic. Both the plastic
container and the air are bad for your oil. I doubt
filtering would help. Filtering also removes flavour
and shouldn't be necessary if you allow solids to
settle in an airtight stainless steel tank. Also
storing next to table olives in brine shouldn't be an
issue if your olive oil is correctly stored. Yes as I
said above you may have picked your olives too ripe.
Higher polyphenol levels in less ripe olives increases
its stability. 22% extraction for frantoio/manzanillo
is pretty normal so I tend to think storage, the
nature of the season, method of extraction and
proportion of green olives all contributed to your
problem. Possibly the frantoio and manzanillo did not
blend well too.If you only have a small quantity of
oil then try buying 20 litres of frantoio picked
greener than yours and processed in a continuous
press. Experiment blending different proportions to
see how it improves the oil and you might learn
something that improves your outcome next season. You
really need to buy yourself a stainless steel olive
oil tank.

Cheers,
Antony Whiting
First Creek
Waterfall Gully SA
--- Mike Wilson <mike.wilson@...> wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> I am after some comments on an olive oil I made this
> year.
>
> A couple of months ago this oil was featured in a
> tasting of 2005 local
> olive oils and it came out looking pretty good.
> Aromatic, plenty of depth
> and flavour. I had high hopes for the oil to win
> medals at the shows. Then
> last weekend the Hunter Olive Show was held and the
> oil did not score well
> at all. It had gone flat and boring. I have since
> re-tasted it and I agree
> with the judges - flat and boring. Not actually
> faulty, but not at all
> interesting. The oil was tested by the IOOC
> accredited lab in Wagga Wagga
> and came out fine as EVOO and no problems.
>
> I have a number of theories that might be the cause
> of this, and I'd be
> grateful for any comments of anybody with similar
> experience. The oil was
> predominantly Frantoio with some Manzanillo, pressed
> on a small Enorrosi
> hammer mill without any additional heating and using
> the traditional mat
> press rather than a centrifuge for extraction.
> Picked fairly ripe - probably
> 90% black - by hand, pressed the following day.
>
> Options for what went wrongs are:
>
> 1. It is Frantoio, and this is what tends to happen
> to this variety (the
> comments of a very experienced grower)
> 2. The oil was left too long on its muddy lees
> (about 4 months)
> 3. The oil was stored with too much exposure to air
> (60 litre plastic drum,
> half empty for 4 months)
> 4. The oil was unfiltered and the vegetable matter
> has contaminated the oil
> 5. The oil was stored next to table olives in brine
> and this has affected
> the flavours
> 6. The olives were picked too ripe and the
> polyphenol level is too low for
> stability
> 7. The sansa was malaxed too long and the oil
> over-extracted somehow (we got
> about 22%)
> 8. Something else
> 9. All of the above!
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Mike Wilson
> Hunter Valley.
>
>
>
>
>
>
</pre>
</td></tr></table>

<table border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
<pre>>
> not wanting to sound like a smart arse but I think No. 8 is your best
> option. Trade shows are good for industry exposure but the real judge
> is the cash register.
>

Thanks for the vote of confidence Roger, but in this instance I agreed with
the judges - the oil was flat and boring. Entering the oil into a show was
done partly in the hope of winning a medal, but more to get the opinion of
tasters with more experience than me. Am I doing everything right, or have I
stuffed up somewhere? The answer is yes, I have stuffed up, and thank you to
Guido, João and Antony for all pointing out the folly of storing oil in
plastic containers.

I was trying to save myself the bother and expense of buying a lot of
bottles at a time and bottling the whole lot in one go. I reasoned that if I
bottled the oil as I needed it I could spread the cost over a longer period
and recoup enough from the sales of oil to buy more bottles. This has proved
to be a mistake, I should have spent the money, bought and bottled the oil
while it was still fresh. On the positive side, I only have one small batch
of about 30 litres of flat oil and that will now go into my herb and garlic
infused oil so I can still sell the oil and get a decent price for it.

Thank you again to the members of this list for sharing their expertise and
experience.

Regards,

Mike Wilson.
</pre>
</td></tr></table>

<table border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
<pre>--- In OliveOil@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Wilson" <mike.wilson@h...> wrote:


The answer is yes, I have stuffed up, and thank you to
> Guido, João and Antony for all pointing out the folly of storing oil in
> plastic containers.
>

Hi Mike

was the plastic food grade? If it was there should be no problem with
contamination.
</pre>
</td></tr></table>

<table border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
<pre>> The answer is yes, I have stuffed up, and thank you to
> > Guido, João and Antony for all pointing out the folly of storing oil in
> > plastic containers.
> >
>
> Hi Mike
>
> was the plastic food grade? If it was there should be no problem with
> contamination.
>
>

Yes, food grade plastic. I don't think the plastic itself was the problem,
more the exposure to air. I don't think that the plastic helped, and may
have been a contributing factor whereas stainless steel would have been
better. However, a plastic drum is heck of a lot cheaper than steel.

From the various comments and other research on this topic I believe my
mistake was to only bottle small amounts at a time, leaving a huge surface
area of oil in the drum exposed to the air. All the other factors are
secondary, and while they may have contributed in a lesser degree, the main
culprit was the air and oil contact.

Regards,

Mike.
</pre>
</td></tr></table>

<table border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
<pre>We press nut oils and what we do is gas flush the air out of the
containers. That way you do not have air contact it is an inert gas
instead. Oil will last 12 - 14 months longer stored flushed and in our
cool room. Why don't you guys use this with olive oils?
Phil

Mike Wilson wrote:

> > The answer is yes, I have stuffed up, and thank you to
> > > Guido, João and Antony for all pointing out the folly of storing
> oil in
> > > plastic containers.
> > >
> >
> > Hi Mike
> >
> > was the plastic food grade? If it was there should be no problem
> with
> > contamination.
> >
> >
>
> Yes, food grade plastic. I don't think the plastic itself was the
> problem,
> more the exposure to air. I don't think that the plastic helped, and
> may
> have been a contributing factor whereas stainless steel would have
> been
> better. However, a plastic drum is heck of a lot cheaper than steel.
>
> >From the various comments and other research on this topic I believe
> my
> mistake was to only bottle small amounts at a time, leaving a huge
> surface
> area of oil in the drum exposed to the air. All the other factors are
> secondary, and while they may have contributed in a lesser degree, the
> main
> culprit was the air and oil contact.
>
> Regards,
>
> Mike.
>
>
>
>
> **************************************************
> Post message: OliveOil@yahoogroups.com
> Subscribe: OliveOil-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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> **************************************************
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>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
>
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>
> + Visit your group "OliveOil" on the web.
>
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>
--
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

Philip Vernon
The Melbourne Food Ingredient Depot
Supplying quality food ingredients, native Australian bushfoods,
medicinal herbs & botanical products in small quantities

508 Lygon Street
East Brunswick
Victoria 3057
Australia

Phone: (03) 9386 3206, Fax: (03) 9386 1888, Mob: 0409 191 328
International numbers: Phone: +61 3 9386 3206, Fax : +61 3 9386 1888
email: phil@... Web: www.mfcd.net



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
</pre>
</td></tr></table>

<table border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
<pre>--- In OliveOil@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Wilson" <mike.wilson@h...> wrote:
> > The answer is yes, I have stuffed up, and thank you to
> > > Guido, João and Antony for all pointing out the folly of storing
oil in
> > > plastic containers.
> > >
> >
> > Hi Mike
> >
> > was the plastic food grade? If it was there should be no problem with
> > contamination.
> >
> >
>
> Yes, food grade plastic. I don't think the plastic itself was the
problem,
> more the exposure to air. I don't think that the plastic helped, and may
> have been a contributing factor whereas stainless steel would have been
> better. However, a plastic drum is heck of a lot cheaper than steel.
>
> From the various comments and other research on this topic I believe my
> mistake was to only bottle small amounts at a time, leaving a huge
surface
> area of oil in the drum exposed to the air. All the other factors are
> secondary, and while they may have contributed in a lesser degree,
the main
> culprit was the air and oil contact.
>
> Regards,
>
> Mike.
Mikle,
Quite possibly, the answer could have been to put a squirt of Nitrogen
over the surface, if you intended to bottle just a small part of the
drum at each time. Nitrogen is cheap (though the rental on the
cylinder is horrendous!) and we, at our press, provide a nitrogen
blanket on any containers on request. (we do charge for it, but not
much!!)

Worth a thought, if you are intending to go the same way again next
season. See if you could "borrow" a bit of food grade Nitrogen from
somewhere.

John
</pre>
</td></tr></table>

<table border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
<pre>The point of the stainless steel tank is that it can
be easily adjusted to the volume in the tank either by
means of a pneumatic lid or by the addition of
nitrogen. Also stainless steel is much easier to clean
than plastic. Large volume correctly stored EVOO in
stainless steel retains its freshness better than in
smaller bottles just as wine takes longer to mature in
magnums than 1/2 bottles. Many producers / judges etc
believe that plastic is only suited to short term
storage and does affect the flavour of the oil.
Cheers,
Antony Whiting
First Creek


--- Mike Wilson <mike.wilson@...> wrote:

> > The answer is yes, I have stuffed up, and thank
> you to
> > > Guido, João and Antony for all pointing out the
> folly of storing oil in
> > > plastic containers.
> > >
> >
> > Hi Mike
> >
> > was the plastic food grade? If it was there
> should be no problem with
> > contamination.
> >
> >
>
> Yes, food grade plastic. I don't think the plastic
> itself was the problem,
> more the exposure to air. I don't think that the
> plastic helped, and may
> have been a contributing factor whereas stainless
> steel would have been
> better. However, a plastic drum is heck of a lot
> cheaper than steel.
>
> From the various comments and other research on this
> topic I believe my
> mistake was to only bottle small amounts at a time,
> leaving a huge surface
> area of oil in the drum exposed to the air. All the
> other factors are
> secondary, and while they may have contributed in a
> lesser degree, the main
> culprit was the air and oil contact.
>
> Regards,
>
> Mike.
>
>
>
>
>
</pre>
</td></tr></table>