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<pre>Phil

Thanks so much for the snap of Alan in his Darth Vader outfit. I am puzzled
however by those stick-like lollipop things in the background. What on
earth are they? Some sort of pre-pubescent Tryffds?

Regards
Peter Caird
www.victorianolivegroves.com
</pre>
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<pre>Gold medal, award winning, Australian olive trees!

Phil

-----Original Message-----
From: P Caird [mailto:caird@hitech.net.au]
Sent: Tuesday, 24 October 2000 8:29 PM
To: OliveOil@egroups.com
Subject: Re: [OliveOil] pollination


Phil

Thanks so much for the snap of Alan in his Darth Vader outfit. I am puzzled
however by those stick-like lollipop things in the background. What on
earth are they? Some sort of pre-pubescent Tryffds?

Regards
Peter Caird
www.victorianolivegroves.com




------------------------------------------------------------------------
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our sister group:
http://www.egroups.com/group/OliveOilRecipes
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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2- Mention the group and its URL in your newsletters and publications.
3- Invite others to visit:
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4- Add a subscription link on your website. See how here:
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5- If you would like me to send a formal invitation to people you know,
write to me at OliveOil-owner@egroups.com
</pre>
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<pre>On Mon, 23 Oct 2000 11:32:43 +1000, Alan Watt wrote:

"I was once told by a Spanish Olive expert that to maximize pollination it
was necessary to have trees that came into flower together . I guess Brian
Chatterton could
tell us if the noted pollinator Pendulino comes into flower at the same time as
the other
Tuscan/Umbrian classics Frantoio, Luccino, Moraiolo and Maurino....."
--
Alan, I have 25 Pendolino as pollinators in my orchard (Umbria) and I can assure
you that
Pendolino comes int flowers at the same time as Frantonio, Leccino, Moraiolo and
Maurino.
You know that Pendolino it's a tree worth seeing with its load of fruits but
since I have only
500 olive trees, may be that 25 pollinators are too many; in fact, according to
late Food
Toxicology News olive pollen is carried a long distance - until 600 KM -by the
wind.
This a statement of Istituto di Ricerche Farmacologiche "Mario Negri" of Milano,
Italy, with
regard to olive pollen allergy studies. Sad to say but in Italy are lately
recorded many olive
and, by sympathy, olive oils allergies: symptoms are rhinitis and conjunctivitis
(G Cocco et al,
GdM, 1966, 30 Maggio: 4).












-----
Antonio Gianno'
janoant@tin.it
http://www.geocities.com/janoant



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
</pre>
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<pre>This may be of interest

I did a literature review as part of my Hons. degree this year on
pollination. looked at number of studies espically in U.S. (Griggs et
al. 1975) and Isreali (Lavee et al. 1978). Both found that olive pollen
could travel many kilometers but the effective distance is only
about 30m max to a max of 100m. Ratio of pollinators being
suggested as max of 1:10 best at 1:1 - 1:3, and to guarntee need
at least two pollinators (i.e. Tuscany mixes. Le, Fr, M) espically
true in marginal climates were enviroment has huge effect on
pollination timing.

Also most concluded that self pollination is very limited in olives,
even in var. claimed to be self pollinating.

I can give more detail on references if required

Iain

> Antonio,
> Thank you for your response to my queries on pollination. 600 Km. is a
> staggering distance for the wind to carry olive pollen - far greater than my
> newly discovered bees. Maybe its unnecessary to have any pollinators as long
> as your neighbour has some. Brian Chatterton said that in your part of the
> world [Umbria] you rely mainly on wind pollination. What is the situation
> with bees?
> Alan Watt, Tanja Olives
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Antonio Gianno' [mailto:janoant@tin.it]
> > Sent: Wednesday, 25 October 2000 7:56
> > To: OliveOil@egroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [OliveOil] pollination
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 23 Oct 2000 11:32:43 +1000, Alan Watt wrote:
> >
> > "I was once told by a Spanish Olive expert that to maximize pollination it
> > was necessary to have trees that came into flower together . I
> > guess Brian Chatterton could
> > tell us if the noted pollinator Pendulino comes into flower at
> > the same time as the other
> > Tuscan/Umbrian classics Frantoio, Luccino, Moraiolo and Maurino....."
> > --
> > Alan, I have 25 Pendolino as pollinators in my orchard (Umbria)
> > and I can assure you that
> > Pendolino comes int flowers at the same time as Frantonio,
> > Leccino, Moraiolo and Maurino.
> > You know that Pendolino it's a tree worth seeing with its load of
> > fruits but since I have only
> > 500 olive trees, may be that 25 pollinators are too many; in
> > fact, according to late Food
> > Toxicology News olive pollen is carried a long distance - until
> > 600 KM -by the wind.
> > This a statement of Istituto di Ricerche Farmacologiche "Mario
> > Negri" of Milano, Italy, with
> > regard to olive pollen allergy studies. Sad to say but in Italy
> > are lately recorded many olive
> > and, by sympathy, olive oils allergies: symptoms are rhinitis and
> > conjunctivitis (G Cocco et al,
> > GdM, 1966, 30 Maggio: 4).
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----
> > Antonio Gianno'
> > janoant@tin.it
> > http://www.geocities.com/janoant
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > You have an olive or olive oil recipe you want to share with
> > others, visit our sister group:
> > http://www.egroups.com/group/OliveOilRecipes
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > This link is the key to an exciting bonus for you! Read below.
> > https://trading.etrade.com/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/applogic+lpmasterpage?SC
> S=ONCR759&RID=1830155029
>
> JOIN E*TRADE AND EARN A $75 SIGN-UP BONUS FOR YOURSELF, ALONG WITH $50 FOR
> OLIVEOIL!
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Five steps to help promote OliveOil:
>
> 1- Add a general link to the group on your website:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/OliveOil
> 2- Mention the group and its URL in your newsletters and publications.
> 3- Invite others to visit:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/OliveOil
> 4- Add a subscription link on your website. See how here:
> http://www.egroups.com/promote/OliveOil
> 5- If you would like me to send a formal invitation to people you know,
> write to me at OliveOil-owner@egroups.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> You have an olive or olive oil recipe you want to share with others, visit our
sister group:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/OliveOilRecipes
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This link is the key to an exciting bonus for you! Read below.
>
<a href="https://trading.etrade.com/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/applogic+lpmasterpage?SCS=ONCR759&RID=1830155029">https://trading.etrade.com/cgi-bin/g...=ONCR759&RID=\
1830155029</a>
>
> JOIN E*TRADE AND EARN A $75 SIGN-UP BONUS FOR YOURSELF, ALONG WITH $50 FOR
OLIVEOIL!
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Five steps to help promote OliveOil:
>
> 1- Add a general link to the group on your website:
http://www.egroups.com/group/OliveOil
> 2- Mention the group and its URL in your newsletters and publications.
> 3- Invite others to visit:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/OliveOil
> 4- Add a subscription link on your website. See how here:
http://www.egroups.com/promote/OliveOil

> 5- If you would like me to send a formal invitation to people you know, write
to me at OliveOil-o
wner@egroups.com
>
</pre>
</td></tr></table>

<table border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
<pre>Antonio,
Thank you for your response to my queries on pollination. 600 Km. is a
staggering distance for the wind to carry olive pollen - far greater than my
newly discovered bees. Maybe its unnecessary to have any pollinators as long
as your neighbour has some. Brian Chatterton said that in your part of the
world [Umbria] you rely mainly on wind pollination. What is the situation
with bees?
Alan Watt, Tanja Olives

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Antonio Gianno' [mailto:janoant@tin.it]
> Sent: Wednesday, 25 October 2000 7:56
> To: OliveOil@egroups.com
> Subject: RE: [OliveOil] pollination
>
>
> On Mon, 23 Oct 2000 11:32:43 +1000, Alan Watt wrote:
>
> "I was once told by a Spanish Olive expert that to maximize pollination it
> was necessary to have trees that came into flower together . I
> guess Brian Chatterton could
> tell us if the noted pollinator Pendulino comes into flower at
> the same time as the other
> Tuscan/Umbrian classics Frantoio, Luccino, Moraiolo and Maurino....."
> --
> Alan, I have 25 Pendolino as pollinators in my orchard (Umbria)
> and I can assure you that
> Pendolino comes int flowers at the same time as Frantonio,
> Leccino, Moraiolo and Maurino.
> You know that Pendolino it's a tree worth seeing with its load of
> fruits but since I have only
> 500 olive trees, may be that 25 pollinators are too many; in
> fact, according to late Food
> Toxicology News olive pollen is carried a long distance - until
> 600 KM -by the wind.
> This a statement of Istituto di Ricerche Farmacologiche "Mario
> Negri" of Milano, Italy, with
> regard to olive pollen allergy studies. Sad to say but in Italy
> are lately recorded many olive
> and, by sympathy, olive oils allergies: symptoms are rhinitis and
> conjunctivitis (G Cocco et al,
> GdM, 1966, 30 Maggio: 4).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----
> Antonio Gianno'
> janoant@tin.it
> http://www.geocities.com/janoant
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> You have an olive or olive oil recipe you want to share with
> others, visit our sister group:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/OliveOilRecipes
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This link is the key to an exciting bonus for you! Read below.
> https://trading.etrade.com/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/applogic+lpmasterpage?SC
S=ONCR759&RID=1830155029

JOIN E*TRADE AND EARN A $75 SIGN-UP BONUS FOR YOURSELF, ALONG WITH $50 FOR
OLIVEOIL!
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Five steps to help promote OliveOil:

1- Add a general link to the group on your website:
http://www.egroups.com/group/OliveOil
2- Mention the group and its URL in your newsletters and publications.
3- Invite others to visit:
http://www.egroups.com/group/OliveOil
4- Add a subscription link on your website. See how here:
http://www.egroups.com/promote/OliveOil
5- If you would like me to send a formal invitation to people you know,
write to me at OliveOil-owner@egroups.com
</pre>
</td></tr></table>

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<pre>Alan,
I use to spend a long time on my little orchard but honestly I have never
noticed bees
working the flowers on the olives at their blossomig time. Instead, I noticed
many bees
working in this period at some other wild, tiny, country flowers in the same
orchard.
I have no knowing about bees but may be that they are not active on May, not
yet, too cold.
Antonio
---------
On Wed, 25 Oct 2000 10:10:17 +1000, Alan Watt wrote:

>Antonio,
>Thank you for your response to my queries on pollination. 600 Km. is a
>staggering distance for the wind to carry olive pollen - far greater than my
>newly discovered bees. Maybe its unnecessary to have any pollinators as long
>as your neighbour has some. Brian Chatterton said that in your part of the
>world [Umbria] you rely mainly on wind pollination. What is the situation
>with bees?
</pre>
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<pre>I've noticed that cv koroneiki seems to flower earlier & heavier & for a
longer period than other cv's.

Roger Farquhar

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
</pre>
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<pre>Dear Iain

Regarding pollinators - I would agree that cross polination is effective

regarding your offer re info - can I get a copy of your project report.
I am willing to pay for your efforts.

Prof Stan kailis
Dept of Plant Science
The University of WA
Nedlands Western Australia 6907

Stan
</pre>
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<pre>Mike,

The grove you describe could have a severe pollination problem. It tends
to show up in adverse years. That is why Italian growers like to have a
considerable pollination margin.

For the Frantoio a good pollinator is Marino - another one of the
classic varieties of central Italy.

There has been considerable research in Italy and it supports the
traditional method of "free" crossing rather than a single pollinator. A
short summary is in our book on page 40.

The most serious problem is the way your blocks are far apart and
separated by a patch of shrub. In Italy the recommendation is that
pollinators/mixed planting should be no more than 20 or 30 metres apart.

In Italy it is part of the traditional flavour of the olive oil to have
a mixed planting but if you find that too difficult to cope with and want to
follow a varietal system like the wine industry I would suggest that you
have rows of other varieties so they can be easily identified and picked
separately.

I also think that you are taking a chance with varieties of widely
differing origins. They may work together but I don't think anyone really
knows. Australia probably has the widest mixture of varieties in the world
in one spot (here in Umbria you cannot get varieties from other parts of
Italy as there is no commercial demand) and their crossing capacity is
unknown. I have suggested theme planting. By this I mean a grove based on a
central Italian theme. Another on a Spanish theme etc. You will be using
varieties with a proven record of cross pollinating.

Cheers Brian Chatterton.
</pre>
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<pre>> Mike,
>
> The grove you describe could have a severe pollination problem. It
tends
> to show up in adverse years. That is why Italian growers like to have a
> considerable pollination margin.
>
> For the Frantoio a good pollinator is Marino - another one of the
> classic varieties of central Italy.
>
> There has been considerable research in Italy and it supports the
> traditional method of "free" crossing rather than a single pollinator. A
> short summary is in our book on page 40.

Page 39 gave me the answer! Frantoio & Leccino were already on the short
list, and now Moraiolo & Maurino can join them. I'm also looking seriously
at Coratina (sp) and now, thanks to Hartley Lewis on another posting,
Signore.

Any comments?

>
> The most serious problem is the way your blocks are far apart and
> separated by a patch of shrub. In Italy the recommendation is that
> pollinators/mixed planting should be no more than 20 or 30 metres apart.

Whenever I get a fatality, I'll replant something else. Fatalities are not
all that uncommon, and usually kangaroo related.

>
> In Italy it is part of the traditional flavour of the olive oil to
have
> a mixed planting but if you find that too difficult to cope with and want
to
> follow a varietal system like the wine industry I would suggest that you
> have rows of other varieties so they can be easily identified and picked
> separately.
>

The new grove will have the benefit of a lot of other peoples mistakes, and
a lot of helpful advise. Thanks to all, yet again.

Regards,

Mike Wilson.
</pre>
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