<table border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
<pre>Alfredo

That is the whole point that the literature in English misses. Olives
need cross pollination in virtually all cases - the Mediterranean saying
is if in doubt cross pollinate.

Cheers Brian Chatterton.
</pre>
</td></tr></table>

<table border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
<pre>Dear All

The proces of pollination is multisaged requiring everything to be read
within a window of time. If stages are out of sink then pollination is
impaired. Also there are numerous factors that can affect each stage.
Briefly pollen (male) must attach to the stigma (receiving organ for
pollen), a pollen tube forms that burrows down the ovaries and an ovule
(female) is fertilised resulting in the formation of the embryo (Seed
inside the hard pit).

There are several sources of pollen that can carry out this process
¥ Pollen from the same flower attaches to the stigma
¥ Pollen from another flower on the same tree attaches to the stigma
¥ Pollen from a flower of another tree of the same variety attaches to
the stigma
¥ Pollen from a flower of another tree but of a different variety
attaches to the stigma
¥ Pollen from a flower of another tree but of a related species

Using 4-6 varieties in the orchard will ensure plenty of pollen. This
becomes less important in some traditional growing countries because of
the volume of olive growing, many different varieties and the close
proximity of other groves.In Australia there are large distances between
som groves so that using multiple varieties become essential. Generally
oil varieties produce abundant amounts of pollen. eg Frantoio,
Koroneiki.

Stan Kailis
</pre>
</td></tr></table>

<table border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
<pre>I was once told by a Spanish Olive expert that to maximize pollination it
was necessary to have trees that came into flower together as there was only
a small window of opportunity when cross pollination could occur. I presume
in traditional olive growing countries they have got this compatibility down
to a fine art. I guess Brian Chatterton could tell us if the noted
pollinator Pendulino comes into flower at the same time as the other
Tuscan/Umbrian classics Frantoio, Luccino, Moraiolo and Maurino.
In Australia, where a strong knowledge and practice of pollination is yet to
be established newer growers have tended to have a 'shotgun' approach by
planting a number of varieties together in the hope that some cross
pollination benefits may occur.
Can anyone throw some more light on this pollination issue by listing the
'compatible' varieties that should be planted together or the timing of
flowering of major varieties?
Bye the way, has anyone had some thoughts about my earlier posting on the
suitability of Manzanilla as a rootstock for grafting? There's been nothing
to date and as I'm about to undertake a major exercise of changing this
variety to a more suitable oil producer I'm hoping someone will be able to
tell me if I'm wasting my time.

Regards, Alan Watt
Tanja Olives

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian Chatterton [mailto:tn7685@orvienet.it]
> Sent: Saturday, 21 October 2000 5:54
> To: Olive List
> Subject: [OliveOil] pollination
>
>
> Alfredo
>
> That is the whole point that the literature in English misses. Olives
> need cross pollination in virtually all cases - the Mediterranean saying
> is if in doubt cross pollinate.
>
> Cheers Brian Chatterton.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> You have an olive or olive oil recipe you want to share with
> others, visit our sister group:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/OliveOilRecipes
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This link is the key to an exciting bonus for you! Read below.
> https://trading.etrade.com/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/applogic+lpmasterpage?SC
S=ONCR759&RID=1830155029

JOIN E*TRADE AND EARN A $75 SIGN-UP BONUS FOR YOURSELF, ALONG WITH $50 FOR
OLIVEOIL!
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Five steps to help promote OliveOil:

1- Add a general link to the group on your website:
http://www.egroups.com/group/OliveOil
2- Mention the group and its URL in your newsletters and publications.
3- Invite others to visit:
http://www.egroups.com/group/OliveOil
4- Add a subscription link on your website. See how here:
http://www.egroups.com/promote/OliveOil
5- If you would like me to send a formal invitation to people you know,
write to me at OliveOil-owner@egroups.com
</pre>
</td></tr></table>

<table border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
<pre>> Can anyone throw some more light on this pollination issue by listing the
> 'compatible' varieties that should be planted together or the timing of
> flowering of major varieties?
> Bye the way, has anyone had some thoughts about my earlier posting on the
> suitability of Manzanilla as a rootstock for grafting? There's been
nothing
> to date and as I'm about to undertake a major exercise of changing this
> variety to a more suitable oil producer I'm hoping someone will be able to
> tell me if I'm wasting my time.
>
> Regards, Alan Watt
> Tanja Olives


Alan,

Based on my limited experience in the Hunter Valley the Manzanillo have just
been through their flowering stage, just as the preferred pollinator
Sevillano start to flower. Time will tell.

Kalamata are flowering at the moment too, Hardys Mammoth haven't really
flowered at all (again) and Azapa and Corrigiolla are also just starting to
flower now, so its only the Manzanillo that are out of step.

Regards,

Mike Wilson.
Hunter Valley.
</pre>
</td></tr></table>

<table border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
<pre>Alan

Did you look at the previous postings regarding your question of grafting at
http://www.egroups.com/messagesearch...%20and%20graft
ing Quite a bit was written; probably when you where absent from Oz.

Regards
Peter Caird
www.victorianolivegroves.com
</pre>
</td></tr></table>

<table border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
<pre>Brian,
Although I have had 4 bee boxes on my property for years I must admit
I have never noticed the bees working the insignificant tiny flowers on the
olives. They are much more apparent on the big showey blooms of the flower
garden or the abundant flowers on the fruit trees in the orchard.
Motivated by your posting I have just returned from a specific visit to the
grove to see what the bees were up to on the just-opening flowers of
Kalamata and Manzanilla. I find that they were, well, - 'as busy as bees'
with back legs laden with pollen.
This puts a somewhat different complexion on the matter of pollination
especially in the number and placement of any specifically selected
pollinators. As bees will travel up to 3 kilometres in search of pollen it
hardly matters if the pollinators are within 'wind distance' of the target
trees.
I can't believe that I have not observed this before!
Thank you Brian and Stan.
Alan Watt, Tanja Olives

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian Chatterton [mailto:tn7685@orvienet.it]
> Sent: Tuesday, 24 October 2000 6:38
> To: Olive List
> Subject: [OliveOil] pollination
>
>
> In this part of Umbria the main varieties are Leccino, Frantoio and
> Moraiolo not necessarily in that order but Pendolino is grown as well as
> many old trees that cannot be identified as named varieties. In Tuscany
> they grow a fair bit of Maurino which is highly regarded as a pollinator
> (it produces a lot of pollen over a long period) in spite of the
> mediocre quality of the oil.
>
> One of the interesting points that has come out of the discussion is
> the role of bees in Australia. These must be local ones as here in Italy
> olives are mainly wind pollinated which means (to take up a point made
> by Stan) that the heaps of pollen around is not a great deal of use as
> it is not carried a long distance by the wind.
>
> Current research in Italy ( described in our book) supports Stan in
> that the a mixed planting of 4 or more varieties - called in the Italian
> research reports "free crossing" is better than a single cross
> pollination. The old timers had this sewn up with there mixed groves.
>
> If one wants to put the whole thing into an historical context - the
> problem was invented by the Victorian passion for pure varieties. In the
> time of Cato no one bothered and pollination was not regarded as a
> problem - he does not mention it at all.
>
> One final point is the safety margin. Fertilisation rates of 3% are
> sufficient but higher rates give a margin against bad weather when
> pollination is poor.
>
> Cheers Brian Chatterton.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> You have an olive or olive oil recipe you want to share with
> others, visit our sister group:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/OliveOilRecipes
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This link is the key to an exciting bonus for you! Read below.
> https://trading.etrade.com/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/applogic+lpmasterpage?SC
S=ONCR759&RID=1830155029

JOIN E*TRADE AND EARN A $75 SIGN-UP BONUS FOR YOURSELF, ALONG WITH $50 FOR
OLIVEOIL!
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Five steps to help promote OliveOil:

1- Add a general link to the group on your website:
http://www.egroups.com/group/OliveOil
2- Mention the group and its URL in your newsletters and publications.
3- Invite others to visit:
http://www.egroups.com/group/OliveOil
4- Add a subscription link on your website. See how here:
http://www.egroups.com/promote/OliveOil
5- If you would like me to send a formal invitation to people you know,
write to me at OliveOil-owner@egroups.com
</pre>
</td></tr></table>

<table border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
<pre>Peter,
Thanks. I did check the archives and while there is much discussion on
grafting to Manzanilla, for the same reasons I have, nothing is mentioned as
to its suitability as a stock. I know nurseries are particular about the
selection of suitable varieties on which to graft for vigour, disease
resistance and compatibility with the selected scion stock. I once reduced
one of Peter Maroudas' Kalamata trees to ground level with an inaccurate
sweep of the slasher and what emerged from the stumpy stock was a
particularly tough and tiny leaf plant [maybe from the non-fruiting variety
or some specially selected wild stock ]. I have kept it for possible use as
a root stock for future grafting.
Maybe our nursery specialists on the list have some views?
Alan Watt, Tanja Olives
> -----Original Message-----
> From: P Caird [mailto:caird@hitech.net.au]
> Sent: Monday, 23 October 2000 2:35
> To: OliveOil@egroups.com
> Subject: Re: [OliveOil] pollination
>
>
> Alan
>
> Did you look at the previous postings regarding your question of
> grafting at
> http://www.egroups.com/messagesearch...manzanillo%20a
> nd%20graft
> ing Quite a bit was written; probably when you where absent from Oz.
>
> Regards
> Peter Caird
> www.victorianolivegroves.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> You have an olive or olive oil recipe you want to share with
> others, visit our sister group:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/OliveOilRecipes
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This link is the key to an exciting bonus for you! Read below.
> https://trading.etrade.com/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/applogic+lpmasterpage?SC
S=ONCR759&RID=1830155029

JOIN E*TRADE AND EARN A $75 SIGN-UP BONUS FOR YOURSELF, ALONG WITH $50 FOR
OLIVEOIL!
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Five steps to help promote OliveOil:

1- Add a general link to the group on your website:
http://www.egroups.com/group/OliveOil
2- Mention the group and its URL in your newsletters and publications.
3- Invite others to visit:
http://www.egroups.com/group/OliveOil
4- Add a subscription link on your website. See how here:
http://www.egroups.com/promote/OliveOil
5- If you would like me to send a formal invitation to people you know,
write to me at OliveOil-owner@egroups.com
</pre>
</td></tr></table>

<table border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
<pre>To illustrate the point about whether the bees were attracted to olive
flowering we took a look in the olive grove this afternoon. On one tree, not
far from five hives, a swarm of bees had attached themselves to an olive
tree. Having heard that one could approach bees when they have gathered in a
swarm neither Alan nor myself were willing to put the theory to the test.

The result of this close encounter can be seen in the digital photos section
on the egroups web page.

Regards,

Phil Bramley

-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Watt [mailto:wattmeyer@one.net.au]
Sent: Tuesday, 24 October 2000 11:00 AM
To: OliveOil@egroups.com
Subject: RE: [OliveOil] pollination


Brian,
Although I have had 4 bee boxes on my property for years I must admit
I have never noticed the bees working the insignificant tiny flowers on the
olives. They are much more apparent on the big showey blooms of the flower
garden or the abundant flowers on the fruit trees in the orchard.
Motivated by your posting I have just returned from a specific visit to the
grove to see what the bees were up to on the just-opening flowers of
Kalamata and Manzanilla. I find that they were, well, - 'as busy as bees'
with back legs laden with pollen.
This puts a somewhat different complexion on the matter of pollination
especially in the number and placement of any specifically selected
pollinators. As bees will travel up to 3 kilometres in search of pollen it
hardly matters if the pollinators are within 'wind distance' of the target
trees.
I can't believe that I have not observed this before!
Thank you Brian and Stan.
Alan Watt, Tanja Olives

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian Chatterton [mailto:tn7685@orvienet.it]
> Sent: Tuesday, 24 October 2000 6:38
> To: Olive List
> Subject: [OliveOil] pollination
>
>
> In this part of Umbria the main varieties are Leccino, Frantoio and
> Moraiolo not necessarily in that order but Pendolino is grown as well as
> many old trees that cannot be identified as named varieties. In Tuscany
> they grow a fair bit of Maurino which is highly regarded as a pollinator
> (it produces a lot of pollen over a long period) in spite of the
> mediocre quality of the oil.
>
> One of the interesting points that has come out of the discussion is
> the role of bees in Australia. These must be local ones as here in Italy
> olives are mainly wind pollinated which means (to take up a point made
> by Stan) that the heaps of pollen around is not a great deal of use as
> it is not carried a long distance by the wind.
>
> Current research in Italy ( described in our book) supports Stan in
> that the a mixed planting of 4 or more varieties - called in the Italian
> research reports "free crossing" is better than a single cross
> pollination. The old timers had this sewn up with there mixed groves.
>
> If one wants to put the whole thing into an historical context - the
> problem was invented by the Victorian passion for pure varieties. In the
> time of Cato no one bothered and pollination was not regarded as a
> problem - he does not mention it at all.
>
> One final point is the safety margin. Fertilisation rates of 3% are
> sufficient but higher rates give a margin against bad weather when
> pollination is poor.
>
> Cheers Brian Chatterton.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> You have an olive or olive oil recipe you want to share with
> others, visit our sister group:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/OliveOilRecipes
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This link is the key to an exciting bonus for you! Read below.
> https://trading.etrade.com/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/applogic+lpmasterpage?SC
S=ONCR759&RID=1830155029

JOIN E*TRADE AND EARN A $75 SIGN-UP BONUS FOR YOURSELF, ALONG WITH $50 FOR
OLIVEOIL!
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Five steps to help promote OliveOil:

1- Add a general link to the group on your website:
http://www.egroups.com/group/OliveOil
2- Mention the group and its URL in your newsletters and publications.
3- Invite others to visit:
http://www.egroups.com/group/OliveOil
4- Add a subscription link on your website. See how here:
http://www.egroups.com/promote/OliveOil
5- If you would like me to send a formal invitation to people you know,
write to me at OliveOil-owner@egroups.com




------------------------------------------------------------------------
You have an olive or olive oil recipe you want to share with others, visit
our sister group:
http://www.egroups.com/group/OliveOilRecipes
------------------------------------------------------------------------
This link is the key to an exciting bonus for you! Read below.
https://trading.etrade.com/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/applogic+lpmasterpage?SCS=ONCR759&
RID=1830155029

JOIN E*TRADE AND EARN A $75 SIGN-UP BONUS FOR YOURSELF, ALONG WITH $50 FOR
OLIVEOIL!
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Five steps to help promote OliveOil:

1- Add a general link to the group on your website:
http://www.egroups.com/group/OliveOil
2- Mention the group and its URL in your newsletters and publications.
3- Invite others to visit:
http://www.egroups.com/group/OliveOil
4- Add a subscription link on your website. See how here:
http://www.egroups.com/promote/OliveOil
5- If you would like me to send a formal invitation to people you know,
write to me at OliveOil-owner@egroups.com
</pre>
</td></tr></table>

<table border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
<pre>In this part of Umbria the main varieties are Leccino, Frantoio and
Moraiolo not necessarily in that order but Pendolino is grown as well as
many old trees that cannot be identified as named varieties. In Tuscany
they grow a fair bit of Maurino which is highly regarded as a pollinator
(it produces a lot of pollen over a long period) in spite of the
mediocre quality of the oil.

One of the interesting points that has come out of the discussion is
the role of bees in Australia. These must be local ones as here in Italy
olives are mainly wind pollinated which means (to take up a point made
by Stan) that the heaps of pollen around is not a great deal of use as
it is not carried a long distance by the wind.

Current research in Italy ( described in our book) supports Stan in
that the a mixed planting of 4 or more varieties - called in the Italian
research reports "free crossing" is better than a single cross
pollination. The old timers had this sewn up with there mixed groves.

If one wants to put the whole thing into an historical context - the
problem was invented by the Victorian passion for pure varieties. In the
time of Cato no one bothered and pollination was not regarded as a
problem - he does not mention it at all.

One final point is the safety margin. Fertilisation rates of 3% are
sufficient but higher rates give a margin against bad weather when
pollination is poor.

Cheers Brian Chatterton.
</pre>
</td></tr></table>

<table border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
<pre>Congratulations to Victorian Olive groves for their award for Gold & Best of
Show ,well done Peter .
Paul ,

----- Original Message -----
From: P Caird <caird@hitech.net.au>
To: <OliveOil@egroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 8:28 PM
Subject: Re: [OliveOil] pollination


> Phil
>
> Thanks so much for the snap of Alan in his Darth Vader outfit. I am
puzzled
> however by those stick-like lollipop things in the background. What on
> earth are they? Some sort of pre-pubescent Tryffds?
>
> Regards
> Peter Caird
> www.victorianolivegroves.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> You have an olive or olive oil recipe you want to share with others, visit
our sister group:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/OliveOilRecipes
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This link is the key to an exciting bonus for you! Read below.
>
https://trading.etrade.com/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/applogic+lpmasterpage?SCS=ONCR759&
RID=1830155029
>
> JOIN E*TRADE AND EARN A $75 SIGN-UP BONUS FOR YOURSELF, ALONG WITH $50 FOR
OLIVEOIL!
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Five steps to help promote OliveOil:
>
> 1- Add a general link to the group on your website:
http://www.egroups.com/group/OliveOil
> 2- Mention the group and its URL in your newsletters and publications.
> 3- Invite others to visit:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/OliveOil
> 4- Add a subscription link on your website. See how here:
http://www.egroups.com/promote/OliveOil
> 5- If you would like me to send a formal invitation to people you know,
write to me at OliveOil-owner@egroups.com
>
</pre>
</td></tr></table>