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<pre>Having not seen the offending article in Cuisine I feel reluctant to
comment but there seems to me room for both professional tasting and
personal opinions as long as it is clear that is what is being given. As I
see it from the comments posted the article purported to be a professional
tasting but was in fact a personal opinion.

The wine industry is a good example of high standard of professional
tasting but also demonstrates its rigidity. The great break through for NZ
wine came in the 1980's with the Sunday Times wine show in London which has
a popular voting system as well as professional judges. The NZ whites
(Sauvignon blanc in particular) swept the board in the popular vote while
the professional judges could not decide whether they were appropraite to
this class or that and rejected them totally in favour of other varieties
that were easier to classify when it came to awarding their medals. The
professional judges assesment has sunk without trace while the popular vote
has been the basis for an enormous expansion of NZ wine exports to the UK.

Cheers Brian Chatterton.
</pre>
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<pre>on 3/3/01 9:19 PM, Chatterton Brian at tn7685@orvienet.it wrote:

> The wine industry is a good example of high standard of professional
> tasting but also demonstrates its rigidity. [snip] The
> professional judges assesment has sunk without trace while the popular vote
> has been the basis for an enormous expansion of NZ wine exports to the UK.

Good points, Brian. So let's suggest that Cuisine have two tasting panels -
one made up of "professionals" (and by that term, I mean people who know how
to taste oil properly - know the protocols and procedures - as with
wine-tasting, there is a very definite skill that has to be learnt), and one
made up of consumers, allowed to choose the oils they like. That would be
very interesting, and a lot more informative than the current article. It
could be that experienced tasters will prefer the more refined (peppery)
oils, while consumers will prefer milder flavours: in my experience in NZ,
however, so few people have tasted real fresh extra virgin olive oil that
they are blown away by the stuff before beginning to worry about nuances.
That will come later, when we have a more educated market.

I could refer people to the chapter in my book on tasting and using oil, but
the group might prefer me to outline what I regard as "the right way" to
taste oil.

The oil should be presented for tasting in a small glass or plastic cup. You
cover the cup with one hand and cradle it in the other. Swirl the oil around
the glass: you're trying to warm it up to release the aroma components in
the oil. After a minute or two, take a deep sniff and recover the glass/cup
with your hand. Take another sniff or two, as necessary.

To taste the oil, make a little "cup" with your tongue behind your lower
front teeth. Pour some oil into this "cup", then suck air between your teeth
and over the oil; this makes a rather inelegant slurping sound. The oil
should spray around inside your mouth (if it hits the back of your throat,
you may splutter uncontrollably). Finally, roll the oil around your mouth
and swallow.

The "technique" is simple enough: designed to allow the taster to get as
much information about the oil as possible. Educating the palate to identify
all the various flavour components takes longer to learn - but as with
wine-tasting, it can be done.

OK: that's my two penn'orth (two cents worth, in the new money). There are
IOOC-accredited tasters in this group: can you add/correct anything?
--
Gareth Renowden, Limestone Hills, New Zealand
Words, olives and truffles
Office +64 (0)3 355 9552 Home +64 (0)3 314 9921
Mobile 025 790 070
"And when I find my trousers, I'll find my feet" (Viv Stanshall)
</pre>
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<pre>Gareth,

I have just read your email on tasting and would like to correct you on one
point in particular. There are no IOOC accredited tasters. WE in Oz have a
tasting panel which is going for IOOC accreditation but that is only the
panel as a whole. We are just tasters on the panel. The accreditation is
only god for 12 months when you have to be retested again.

Also for the tasting your method is ok but usually the IOOC use blue glasses
so the colour of the oil can not be seen.

Hope this helps.

Regards
Carol


Olive Connection
13 Bogalara Road
Old Toongabbie NSW 2146
email: lheureux@zip.com.au
Tel: 61 2 9631 5776
Fax: 61 2 9636 4971
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gareth Renowden" <gareth@renowden.co.nz>
To: <OliveOil@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2001 9:12 AM
Subject: Re: [OliveOil] Tasting


> on 3/3/01 9:19 PM, Chatterton Brian at tn7685@orvienet.it wrote:
>
> > The wine industry is a good example of high standard of professional
> > tasting but also demonstrates its rigidity. [snip] The
> > professional judges assesment has sunk without trace while the popular
vote
> > has been the basis for an enormous expansion of NZ wine exports to the
UK.
>
> Good points, Brian. So let's suggest that Cuisine have two tasting
panels -
> one made up of "professionals" (and by that term, I mean people who know
how
> to taste oil properly - know the protocols and procedures - as with
> wine-tasting, there is a very definite skill that has to be learnt), and
one
> made up of consumers, allowed to choose the oils they like. That would be
> very interesting, and a lot more informative than the current article. It
> could be that experienced tasters will prefer the more refined (peppery)
> oils, while consumers will prefer milder flavours: in my experience in NZ,
> however, so few people have tasted real fresh extra virgin olive oil that
> they are blown away by the stuff before beginning to worry about nuances.
> That will come later, when we have a more educated market.
>
> I could refer people to the chapter in my book on tasting and using oil,
but
> the group might prefer me to outline what I regard as "the right way" to
> taste oil.
>
> The oil should be presented for tasting in a small glass or plastic cup.
You
> cover the cup with one hand and cradle it in the other. Swirl the oil
around
> the glass: you're trying to warm it up to release the aroma components in
> the oil. After a minute or two, take a deep sniff and recover the
glass/cup
> with your hand. Take another sniff or two, as necessary.
>
> To taste the oil, make a little "cup" with your tongue behind your lower
> front teeth. Pour some oil into this "cup", then suck air between your
teeth
> and over the oil; this makes a rather inelegant slurping sound. The oil
> should spray around inside your mouth (if it hits the back of your throat,
> you may splutter uncontrollably). Finally, roll the oil around your mouth
> and swallow.
>
> The "technique" is simple enough: designed to allow the taster to get as
> much information about the oil as possible. Educating the palate to
identify
> all the various flavour components takes longer to learn - but as with
> wine-tasting, it can be done.
>
> OK: that's my two penn'orth (two cents worth, in the new money). There
are
> IOOC-accredited tasters in this group: can you add/correct anything?
> --
> Gareth Renowden, Limestone Hills, New Zealand
> Words, olives and truffles
> Office +64 (0)3 355 9552 Home +64 (0)3 314 9921
> Mobile 025 790 070
> "And when I find my trousers, I'll find my feet" (Viv Stanshall)
>
>
> ************************************************** ***
> Olive Oil Statistics: http://sadoun.com/olive.htm
>
> ************************************************** ***
> Addresses:
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> URL to this page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OliveOil
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
</pre>
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<pre>Loved your typo Carol. Accreditation is GOD for only 12 months! Ah
well.............

Regards
Peter Caird
www.victorianolivegroves.com
0418 392 157

We are just tasters on the panel. The accreditation is
only god for 12 months when you have to be retested again.
</pre>
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<pre>on 5/3/01 4:28 PM, Carol & Chuck L'Heureux at lheureux@wr.com.au wrote:

> I have just read your email on tasting and would like to correct you on one
> point in particular. There are no IOOC accredited tasters. WE in Oz have a
> tasting panel which is going for IOOC accreditation but that is only the
> panel as a whole. We are just tasters on the panel. The accreditation is
> only god for 12 months when you have to be retested again.

Thanks Carol. Perhaps I should have said "trained to IOOC standards" or
something similar.

> Also for the tasting your method is ok but usually the IOOC use blue glasses
> so the colour of the oil can not be seen.

I understand the reasons for that, but when marketing oil colour is
certainly important. That's when white saucers on a retailer's counter
really come in to their own...

Regards
--
Gareth Renowden, Limestone Hills, New Zealand
Words, olives and truffles
Office +64 (0)3 355 9552 Home +64 (0)3 314 9921
Mobile 025 790 070
"And when I find my trousers, I'll find my feet" (Viv Stanshall)
</pre>
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<pre>Ref.: "I understand the reasons for that, but when
marketing oil colour is certainly important." Gareth
Renowden.

Dear Gareth:

What do you mean by saying "marketing oil color"? This
is totally new to me.

Thank you.

Best regards,

Constantine

=====
Constantine Alexander
http://www.OliveTree.cc
Where Olive Oil is a Passion
http://PapasHaven-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
"Olio nuovo e vino vecchio"
"Aceite de oliva, todo mal quita"

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
</pre>
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<pre>on 8/3/01 1:47 AM, Constantine Alexander at PapaAlexander@yahoo.com wrote:

> Dear Gareth:
>
> What do you mean by saying "marketing oil color"? This
> is totally new to me.

Constantine,

Perhaps I should have put a comma in there: thus -

"I understand the reasons for that, but when
marketing, oil colour is certainly important."

In other words, although oil colour is deliberately excluded from standard
tasting methodology, it is important as a factor when selling oil to
consumers.

From a marketing perspective, my preference for packaging is a clear glass
bottle, labelled with a strict injunction to store in a cool, dark place.
Dark bottles tell you nothing about the oil, and have the added drawback
that you never know how much is left inside! ;-)

Regards
--
Gareth Renowden, Limestone Hills, New Zealand
Words, olives and truffles
Office +64 (0)3 355 9552 Home +64 (0)3 314 9921
Mobile 025 790 070
"The crux of the biscuit is the apostrophe" (Zappa)
</pre>
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<pre>We have just completed the first UWA Olive Oil Tasters' School. There
were 27 participants. Dr Lucoano Di Giovacchino an international expert
on tasting and myself conducted the school. As many people could not
participate because of space I will be hoping to run a second school
this year. As part of the school activities I prepared a workbook with
some 70 pages of notes. I am currently editing these notes which will
form the basis of the Australian Olive Oil Taster's Manual¿. I hope this
will be read for sale in the near future.

I am now planning a number of olive events for 2000

¥ Table Olives - getting started
¥ New Norcia Symposium - The bread, the olive and wine
¥ Olives as a weed
¥ Quality management of Olive groves

Also I anticipate that sometime between April and June I will be
organising workshops on the Australian Table Olive Production Manual¿ in
SA, Vic, NSW, Qld and Tas. Those persons who have registered their
interest in the project will be notified directly. The workshop will be
open to others on a fee paying basis.

I will give more information regarding dates and venues at a later date.
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<pre>Some fiurther information on tasting.

¥ panels are accredited for one year
¥ panels are made up of 8-10 persons who have been tested and trained
¥ IOOC accredited panel tasters do not grade olive oils - they are
asked to quantify attributes - good and bad
¥ Good attributes are fruitiness, pungency and bitterness
¥ Faults include - rancidity, fusty, musty, winey and others
¥ each panel member's results are then processed stastically by the
panel chair and an evaluation of the oil is made.
¥ EVO has median of defect = 0 with a median of fruitiness of greater
than 0

Also in Italy the tasters use brown or black tasting glasses whereas in
Spain they use blue ones.

Stan Kailis
</pre>
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