<table border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
<pre>Gareth,
As one of the panelists that Carol mentioned I would add that the heating
of the oil is not at random at you may have accidentally inferred. The IOOC
specify a temperature which is 28 degC. The aim here is to ensure that all
oils are evaporating the same degree of aroma volatile compounds according
to their composition. Obviously, if one oil is hotter than another then you
can have a situation where the hotter oil may appear to be more fruity than
the cold oil even if they are of the same composition.

re judging - you compare wine with oil. I have experience in both and what
you say is correct. I would caution people, however, to remember that olive
oil declines in quality from the point that it is extracted. Wine does not
always do that, some "mature with age" like Penfold's 'Grange' in
Australia. For oil then, judging is aimed at forcasting the quality of the
oil in, say, 12 months time. Will it still be as good? As balanced? Will
there be any hint of rancidity or fustiness? Thus the bias is more towards
quality assurance than style I think.

re the panel - I understand that the convener, Richard Gawel, may be
preparing an article to go into 'The Olive Press' outlining the operational
details of the panel in Australia. This may provide further information for
you re tasting procedures.

Bob Barrett, Lecturer in Olive Production & Marketing


same At 02:28 PM 5/03/01 +1100, you wrote:
>Gareth,
>
>I have just read your email on tasting and would like to correct you on one
>point in particular. There are no IOOC accredited tasters. WE in Oz have a
>tasting panel which is going for IOOC accreditation but that is only the
>panel as a whole. We are just tasters on the panel. The accreditation is
>only good for 12 months when you have to be retested again.
>
>Also for the tasting your method is ok but usually the IOOC use blue glasses
>so the colour of the oil can not be seen. Regards, >Carol
=================================
> Good points, Brian. So let's suggest that Cuisine have two tasting
>panels -
>> one made up of "professionals" (and by that term, I mean people who know
>how
>> to taste oil properly - know the protocols and procedures - as with
>> wine-tasting, there is a very definite skill that has to be learnt), and
>one
>> made up of consumers, allowed to choose the oils they like. That would be
>> very interesting, and a lot more informative than the current article. It
>> could be that experienced tasters will prefer the more refined (peppery)
>> oils, while consumers will prefer milder flavours: in my experience in NZ,
>> however, so few people have tasted real fresh extra virgin olive oil that
>> they are blown away by the stuff before beginning to worry about nuances.
>> That will come later, when we have a more educated market.
[cut]
>> The oil should be presented for tasting in a small glass or plastic cup.
>You
>> cover the cup with one hand and cradle it in the other. Swirl the oil
>around
>> the glass: you're trying to warm it up to release the aroma components in
>> the oil. After a minute or two, take a deep sniff and recover the
>glass/cup
[cut]
>> wine-tasting, it can be done. Gareth Renowden, Limestone Hills, New
Zealand
</pre>
</td></tr></table>

<table border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
<pre>on 8/3/01 3:49 PM, Bob Barrett at bob.barrett@adelaide.edu.au wrote:

> re judging - you compare wine with oil. I have experience in both and what
> you say is correct. I would caution people, however, to remember that olive
> oil declines in quality from the point that it is extracted. Wine does not
> always do that, some "mature with age" like Penfold's 'Grange' in
> Australia. For oil then, judging is aimed at forcasting the quality of the
> oil in, say, 12 months time. Will it still be as good? As balanced? Will
> there be any hint of rancidity or fustiness? Thus the bias is more towards
> quality assurance than style I think.

Absolutely. Tasting as defined by the IOOC is about detecting
faults/assuring quality: but the same technique will allow a producer (or
critic) to understand all the flavour components at work in the oil, and
that may affect work in the grove as well as marketing blurb. On the subject
of oil ageing: the taster is shooting at a moving target. The taste of an
oil changes with time from harvest. As an interesting aside, a local Barnea
producer tells me that the oil, bland immediately after pressing, develops
more flavour after a month or two.

> re the panel - I understand that the convener, Richard Gawel, may be
> preparing an article to go into 'The Olive Press' outlining the operational
> details of the panel in Australia. This may provide further information for
> you re tasting procedures.

Thanks for that. I look forward to reading it.
--
Gareth Renowden, Limestone Hills, New Zealand
Words, olives and truffles
Office +64 (0)3 355 9552 Home +64 (0)3 314 9921
Mobile 025 790 070
"And when I find my trousers, I'll find my feet" (Viv Stanshall)
</pre>
</td></tr></table>

<table border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
<pre>Re olive oil testing

Purity tests must be met
Quality tests = Free fatty acid, Peroxide, UV and organoleptic.

Regarding the testing - Fruitiness and defects are scored. Panel tasters
do not judge oilsthey score then median claues are taken.

Regarding Australian Panels

All would have to meet IOOC requirements. Panels can be set up by
agencies or private groups. The IOOC have published the world list of
panels and labs. I am not sure if the AOA has a panel if this would be a
conflict of interest??

My view is that if a country produces olive oil for international sale
and is labelled EVO, it must meet the prescribed trade standards.
Different rules may prevail for internal consumption, but these need to
be thought out clearly.

With Australia - there is going to be a need for at least three panels,
to ensure that at least one is functional at any one time. Panels need
annual testing and training.

Judging oils like wines is a different story. I would expect that the
IOOC requirements would be baseline requirements unless there is a
justifiable reason. The IOOC have addressed this with the Solinas awards
where further sensory characters are evaluated by and expert expert!!!
panel is involved.

Hope this adds to the discussion.

I hope to have tidied up the notes of my olive tasters school within 4-6
weeks. These will be available to purchase - Price ???? watch this
space.
</pre>
</td></tr></table>

<table border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
<pre>I know i drive people mad at times however I have to ask the same question -
how can you tell what the oil will be like in 12 months time?? It seems to
me that by assessing it at the time of "judging" the results can only be
based on that test at that time. I would be really interested to hear
further on this from perhaps European judges/panels/sources etc.
kind regards
John Bishop
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gareth Renowden" <gareth@renowden.co.nz>
To: <OliveOil@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2001 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: [OliveOil] Heating oils for sensory evaluation


> on 8/3/01 3:49 PM, Bob Barrett at bob.barrett@adelaide.edu.au wrote:
>
> > re judging - you compare wine with oil. I have experience in both and
what
> > you say is correct. I would caution people, however, to remember that
olive
> > oil declines in quality from the point that it is extracted. Wine does
not
> > always do that, some "mature with age" like Penfold's 'Grange' in
> > Australia. For oil then, judging is aimed at forcasting the quality of
the
> > oil in, say, 12 months time. Will it still be as good? As balanced? Will
> > there be any hint of rancidity or fustiness? Thus the bias is more
towards
> > quality assurance than style I think.
>
> Absolutely. Tasting as defined by the IOOC is about detecting
> faults/assuring quality: but the same technique will allow a producer (or
> critic) to understand all the flavour components at work in the oil, and
> that may affect work in the grove as well as marketing blurb. On the
subject
> of oil ageing: the taster is shooting at a moving target. The taste of an
> oil changes with time from harvest. As an interesting aside, a local
Barnea
> producer tells me that the oil, bland immediately after pressing, develops
> more flavour after a month or two.
>
> > re the panel - I understand that the convener, Richard Gawel, may be
> > preparing an article to go into 'The Olive Press' outlining the
operational
> > details of the panel in Australia. This may provide further information
for
> > you re tasting procedures.
>
> Thanks for that. I look forward to reading it.
> --
> Gareth Renowden, Limestone Hills, New Zealand
> Words, olives and truffles
> Office +64 (0)3 355 9552 Home +64 (0)3 314 9921
> Mobile 025 790 070
> "And when I find my trousers, I'll find my feet" (Viv Stanshall)
>
>
>
> ************************************************** ***
> Olive Oil Statistics: http://sadoun.com/olive.htm
>
> ************************************************** ***
> Addresses:
> Post message: OliveOil@yahoogroups.com
> Subscribe: OliveOil-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Unsubscribe: OliveOil-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> List owner: OliveOil-owner@yahoogroups.com
> URL to this page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OliveOil
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
</pre>
</td></tr></table>

<table border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
<pre>Regarding olive oil quality after 12 months - all quality parameters are
less favourable especially the peroxide value.

Organoleptic changes = less fruity, pungent and bitter - increased
rancidity

If the phenolic levels are are high - green oil, or variety eg Coratina
the parameters do not change as fast.

Stan Kailis
</pre>
</td></tr></table>